Re: I, Hercules [was: A "Germanic" query] IRMIN

From: tgpedersen
Message: 13215
Date: 2002-04-12

--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: tgpedersen
> To: cybalist@...
> Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2002 10:26 AM
> Subject: [tied] Re: I, Hercules [was: A "Germanic" query] IRMIN
>
>
> > In light of New Persian <e:rma:n>, which developped from
<Aryaman> within an Iranic language, are you certain that Alanian did
not have a similar form?
>
> As the name "Alani" proves, the development of *arya- in Alanic was
different from that in Persian. Besides, the initial vowel is short
in Germanic; it can't represent *e: < *ai (*airiia-).
>
> > The Gallehus gold horn has the name Hlewa-gastiz "fame guest". Is
it possible to interpret *gasti-z not as "guest" but "host", ie.
a "free spender" and therefore a good sovereign?
>
> Is there a shred of independent evidence for such an interpretation?
>
> > Is Gothic <ermana-> etc known outside of ethnonyms and personal
names? If not, what else is the translation as "strong, powerful,
great" based on?
>
> It is found as an intensifying prefix in common vocabulary, cf.
OIc. jörmun-gandr 'huge monster' (not 'friendly monster') or jörmun-
grund 'the wide earth'
>
> Piotr
>

Here are a few shreds of evidence. I thought I'd read it somewhere.

"
...This is why we find /ari/ translated in the dictionaries
by 'friend' and by 'enemy' concurrently.

The German Indologist, P. Thieme, devoted a detailed study to this
problem in 1938; it is entitled Der Fremdling im R.gveda, because at
the end of a long analysis, the author believes he can translate the
root /ari-/ as 'stranger'. The two contradictory senses 'friend'
and 'enemy' may be compared, he suggests, to the two senses
of /*gHosti-/ : on the one hand Lat. /hostis/ 'guest',
Got. /gasts/ 'guest', on the other Lat. /hostis/ 'enemy'.
Similarly, /ari/ is "the stranger, friend or enemy". Based on /ari/,
the derivative /arya/ would signify 'he who has a connexion with a
stranger', hence 'protector of the stranger',
German /gastlich/ 'hospitable', and also 'master of the household'.
Finally, from /arya-/ the second derivative /a:rya-/ would literally
mean 'belonging to the guest'; hence 'hospitable'. The /a:rya/ called
themselves 'the hospitable ones' thus contrasting their humanity with
the barbarism of the people who surrounded them.
"
from: Emile Benveniste
Indo-European Language and Society

and

hostis, hostis
enemy (of the state); stranger, foreigner; the enemy (pl.);

[no sense inversion here; but:]
hospes, hospitis
[*gHosti-pot-]
of relation between host and guest; that hosts; that guests; foreign,
alien; hostis, hostis

from: Whitakers Latin PC dictionary

Torsten