Post-Gothic "Getic" fantasies: the source(s)

From: george knysh
Message: 12908
Date: 2002-03-28

Cf. C.T.R. Hayward,ed. and transl., "Saint Jerome's
HEBREW QUESTIONS ON GENESIS", Oxford: Clarendon Press
1995.

p.39: "I know that a certain man has referred Gog and
Magog, both as regards the present verse and in
Ezekiel, to the account of the Goths who were recently
ravaging our land: whether this is true is shown by
the outcome of the actual battle [recorded in Ezekiel
38-9]. But in fact all learned men in the past had
certainly been accustomed to calling the Goths Getae
rather than Gog and Magog."

==The context is Jerome's analysis of GENESIS 10:2
("The sons of Japhet were Gomer and Magog and Madai
and Javan and Thubal and Mosoch and Thiras")

==The "certain man" is St. Ambrose of Milan, who in
his DE FIDE (2.16), written shortly after Adrianople
(378 AD) had identified the victorious Goths with the
Biblical "Gog and Magog". BTW Jerome followed Josephus
in suggesting that Gog and Magog="Scythians", and did
not equate Scythians and Goths. St Ambrose for his
part knew nothing about Goths as Getae.

=== The "recent ravages" point to the events of
378-382.

=="all learned men in the past": Jerome on the next
page (commenting on GENESIS 10:4-5) explicitly
mentions Varro, Sisinnius Capito, and Phlegon as "most
learned men". Hayward doubts that Jerome actually read
their works and suggests that "he may indeed have used
their names simply to convince his audience of his
great learning and wide range of knowledge" (p. 141).
Jerome certainly knew and used Herodotus, Ovid,
Strabo, and Pliny. But it is clear enough that the
equation Goths=Getae is his own understanding of these
learned sources, not a reference to any statement made
by them. The expression "all learned men" cannot mean
anything else than that Jerome found many references
to the Getae in previous writings. Since in his time
the Goths occupied the northern shores of the Danube,
and since in the sources which spoke of the Getae in
the past that is where the latter were primarily
located, he simply concluded that yesterday's Getae
were today's Goths. It's as simple as that. Orosius
repeated Jerome, and Jordanes repeated Orosius.

===Hayward offers convincing proof (pp.23-27) that the
QUAESTIONES HEBRAICAE IN GENESIM were completed in
early 393.

Therefore, unless and until new evidence emerges, the
equation Goths=Getae should be attributed to Jerome,
writing in Bethlehem in the very late 4th c. AD.


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