Re: [tied] Scythians of Dobrudja

From: Rex H. McTyeire
Message: 12449
Date: 2002-02-23

Responding to George Knysh:

Let's narrow a bit: I'm having a problem with Dobrudja
(Dobrogea/Dobrodjia) as
"Northern Thrace" (But yy Thrace is bigger than everybody else's, and I
would put "Classical Scythia" as intrusive into NE Thrace :-). Most
references I have seen limit the "Dobrudja" region to south of the
Danube Mouth, and present it as named pre-Greek. I believe there were
many small Kingdoms of refugees from Scythian incursion; and later
Scythianized splinter groups of many possible origins scattered about
the E. Danube region and westward into Pannonia. A third series of
'Isolate States' followed Scythian state breakup. So identifying the
sub regional state you reference as linguistically Scyth, or just
Scythianized Thracian (Getae or Cimmerian?) would be difficult I expect.
I am also beginning to suspect that your "Aukhuta" are Scythianized
Thracians (mostly Getae?)..dominated in place or moving south west. The
Hellinization standard for that region, more so in the cities and
coastally. Most references would also put the Bastarnae on the
northern edge of this region, on the line, but periodically operating
south. Odrysian was fading in identity (the state destroyed by Phillip
in 341 BC; as King Ateas (Scythian) was successfully invading Dobrogea;
only to be Pushed out by Phillip after a failed alliance. Getic States
and Macedonian governorships contested control back and forth for some
time, but the region you describe for the period was primarily
Hellinizied Moesi about the cities, and Getae rurally IMO. Anyone
arriving from N and E of the Delta much after 300 BC and setting up a
small "neighborhood" kingdom (and there were many such) would be called
Scythian ..and this continued until it became popular to call them
Sarmatian, IMO. It didn't have much to do with who they really were :-)
Dobrogea is essentially the strip of Black Sea Coast running south from
the Danube Mouth through Constanta well south west into modern
Bulgaria.


Cu Stima;
Rex H. McTyeire
Bucharest, Romania

O-: Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:47:49 -0800 (PST)
O-: From: george knysh <gknysh@...>
O-: Subject: The Scythians of Dobrudja
O-:
O-: One of the successor states to the classical Scythian
O-: Kingdom was the "Little Scythia" which arose in
O-: northern Thrace (Dobrudja) ca. 250 BC. According to
O-: Strabo, its population base was made up of the masses
O-: of Scythian emigrants from areas west of the Dnipro r.
O-: who left their previous abodes to escape the
O-: relentless pressure of Sarmats and other incoming
O-: peoples, and who were not interested in combining with
O-: those Scythians who had concentrated around the cities
O-: of the Lower Dnipro and in the Crimea. Pliny notes
O-: that the Scythians of Dobrudja were primarily
O-: "Aratores", i.e. Aukhata. Their state lasted for
O-: approximately 150 years until it was destroyed (so the
O-: leading theory holds) by the Bastarnae. The area of
O-: this state continued to be known as "Scythia" for
O-: hundreds of years, and was so designated in Roman
O-: administrative lists.==== The kings of this "Little
O-: Scythia" were more hellenized than those of the Crimea
O-: and the Lower Dnipro, judging by their appearance in
O-: surviving coins.
O-: Six royal names are known:
O-:
O-: KANIT
O-:
O-: KHORAPS
O-:
O-: APROS
O-:
O-: SARIA
O-:
O-: ELI
O-:
O-: TANOUS
O-:
O-: Analysis welcome.