Re: [tied] Re: Grimm and Verner

Torsten said:

>So, to let the glottal stop match something that "really happened",
> we could let that ting be "the intention to keep words separate",
> present in some languages but not in others. It's not a thing that
> happened, but it's an intention to make it happen if necessary.

So, in other words, initial position. Which is where we started. And that
might be simpler than suggesting influence from something that didn't
happen.

Peter

----- Original Message -----
From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2001 11:32 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Grimm and Verner


> --- In cybalist@..., "P&G" <petegray@...> wrote:
> > > I was speaking purely formalistically. The problem was: how
> > > to get rid of the "if initial" part of the formulation of Verner's
> > > law. We can do that by inserting glottal stop *signs* between
> words,
> > > let them unvoice the following fricative and then let them
> disappear
> > > in non-voiced environments.
> > >
> > > Torsten
> >
> > We could also insert Santa Claus, but it still wouldn't be an
> acceptable
> > explanation. To explain given facts, we need a process based on
> what we
> > suggest really happened, not just something "purely formal".
> >
> > Peter
>
> In a sense you are right, since the ontological status of Santa Claus
> and of glottal stops are both problematic. Not that glottal stops
> don't exist, but are just that: stops. They are not somethings, but
> cessation of something (voice) that was already there.
>
> One could express the glottal stop in pseudo-MIDI as
>
> 1: +voice for 1 time unit
> 2: +voice for 1 time unit
> 3: -voice for 1 time unit
> 4: +voice for 1 time unit
> 5: +voice for 1 time unit
> (pianola style)
>
> or
>
> 1: +voice for 5 time units
> 3: interrupt voice for 1 time unit
> ("functional" style)
>
> The latter style is perhaps how you describe a prosodic feature.
>
> So, to let the glottal stop match something that "really happened",
> we could let that ting be "the intention to keep words separate",
> present in some languages but not in others. It's not a thing that
> happened, but it's an intention to make it happen if necessary.
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
>
>
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