Re: [tied] Rydberg on the Ribhus of the Rigveda

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 11412
Date: 2001-11-22

*Bhagos is not known outside Indo-Iranian influence. But the blind god of fortune, giver of richness, appears in Norse as the blind Ho¨dr, and probably in Rome as Terminus. Perhaps his role corresponds to the Greek daimones (<*dai- to share), but in Greece there was no individual god name Daimon, perhaps absorbed by Ploutos "rich", maybe a epithet of Haides (cf.Plouton).
*Bhagos was the usual partner of *Aryome:n (cf. Aryaman/Bhaga - Baldr/Hodr).
Root *bHag- gave Greek phagein "to eat", perhaps originally "to share food".
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Rydberg on the Ribhus of the Rigveda

My personal hypothesis is that IIr *bHaga- was borrowed into (Balto-?)Slavic very early, but after the operation of so-called Winter's Law, which would have produced *ba:ga- in Baltic/Slavic (if it were nor for Winter's Law, I would consider the word inherited). The meaning at that time was "one's share, wealth, fortune"; it survives rather well in derivatives like *bogatU 'rich' (Sergei and I discussed these things not long ago). In Middle Iranian times the Sarmatians imparted many of their religious ideas to the neighbouring Slavs, one consequence of which was the new use of the word *baga- '(friendly) god < giver of prosperity'. I leave open the question of how thoroughly the source culture had been Zoroastrianised (Zoroastrianism itself did not develop in a vacuum but absorbed more ancient Iranian beliefs and traditions). The religious terminology borrowed by the Slavs was, anyway, "provincial", i.e. Middle NE Iranian, not classical Avestan.
 
Piotr
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Rydberg on the Ribhus of the Rigveda


--- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> It's *bHag-, not *bHag^- (Skt. bHaga-, Slavic *bogU,
> with vocalism suggesting, if not proving, an early
> loan rather than inheritance)./.../ it's probable
that
> Iranian religious influence on Slavic dates to
> Middle Iranian ("Sarmatian") times.
>
> Piotr

*****GK: This receives a measure of contextual
confirmation from history and archaeology. The first
arguably Slavic material remains (via the method of
retrospective archaeogenetic) are those of the period
200 BC-200 AD, which also sees the massive advent of
the Sarmatians into the European steppes. Whatever the
impact or non-impact of Zoroastrianism on this
process, it is clear enough that some of the Alans
were practitioners of the religion: the city of
Theodosia was renamed "Artabda" with the -(a)bda
referencing the "seven immortals" (amerta spenta) of
classical Zoroastrianism. As late as Khazar times the
burial customs of a substantial proportion of the
Alanic Khazars (those of the Donets, in the area of
Old Saltiv mear modern Kharkiv [the culture of
Khazaria is usually called "Saltovian"]were
Zoroastrian (as were those of the Khazar contingents
residing in Kyiv in the period ca. 760-860 AD just
prior to the arrival of the Norse dynasts). Of course
the main "bog"-ing influence would likely have
occurred before the Slavic ex