Re: [tied] How to prepare **udon soup (was: PIE rhotacism)

From: Glen Gordon
Message: 11397
Date: 2001-11-22

Miguel:
>If you want an overview, here it is:

Much appreciated. This is a start at restoring some sanity to this
discussion. To be blunt, your vowel systesm are typologically
ignorant.


>Original system:
>
>*i *u *i: *u:
> *a *a:

It starts off as a perfectly balanced system alright...


>I. Loss of high vowels: [...]
>
> *a *a: *ai *au *a:i *a:u

Now here's where the bullshit starts. I defy you to justify your
ideas using mainstream linguistics.

1) One-vowel systems don't exist anywhere, period. Biggest
problem of all.

2) With only *a and *a:, *a: would most certainly dissolve
into another short vowel in order to greatly improve
speech economy.

3) Since *a: is as (or more) predominant than *a, as shown
by your lala-land reconstructions(1), your long vowels must
be typologically reinterpreted as unmarked (short) and
your short vowels, what little exist, as extra-short or
non-existant. Of course, the latter solution runs into
even more problems concerning syllabicity.

4) Since *a: is in reality "short" by general typological
constraints, the assertion that {*a > *e AND *o} DOUBLY
defies the strong tendency for such vowels to LOWER, not
rise.

5) Given all the above problems, one fails to see why
a two-vowel system is avoided given that the *e/*o ablaut
directly suggests such an interpretation. (This view has
already been put forth fourty years ago.)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
(1) In the following "conlang" paradigm...

NA **w�:da:n **wad�:n
G **wa:d�na:s **wada:n�s
AbI **wa:d�na:t **wada:n�t
DL **wa:d�na **wada:n�

...an entire 50% percent of the above vocalisms are "long",
making *a and *a: at the very least EQUAL in markedness,
completely undermining justification for length.
--------------------------------------------------------------


So we have five gigantic and intractable problems that ignore
reasoning. Further, your ideas remain inefficient and inferior
to the typologically sound theory I've espoused. (Plus, you still
can't explain the origin of the mobile accent while I can.)

- love gLeN



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