Re: Boiotia < *bhoi- ?

From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 11131
Date: 2001-11-15

--- In cybalist@..., "Dr. Antonio Sciarretta" <sciarretta@...>
wrote:
> At 13:25 14.11.2001 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >I read Georgiev some years back. Well argued.
> >You find -ind, -und, -s in Danish pre-Germanic island names similar
> >to the -inthos, -unthos, -ssos place names of Georgiev's substratum
> >of Greek, see
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/5219
>
> The "Pelasgian" -inthos, -unthos have different origins (part of a
name's
> root, derivative *-to- after a n-stem, suffix *-Nto-, etc.), but
however
> derive from a "Pelasgian" phonetic feature *t > th.
> If I'm correct, there is not yet an IE language in which *t > d
(and *p >
> b, *k > g).
> So, if your toponymic connection is right, this would be a
distinguishing
> feature of this unknown "Pre-Germanic" language.
> Not only for Pelasgian, it happened that strange toponyms were
explained by
> postulating an unknown IE language.
> Apart from "Alteuropaeisch", it is the case of the language that
gave Aetna
> mons (the volcano in Sicily), from the same root as Gk. aitho 'to
burn' <
> IE *aidh-, and also the personal name Rutilius, lat. ruber < *rudh-
ro- < IE
> *reudh- 'red'. They are explained by several italian scholars as a
> "latino-siculoid" language in which IE *dh > t, as probably in the
> Anatolian and Tocharic languages.
>
> >Interestingly, *bh, *dh, *gh > b, d, g and *p, *t, *k > ph, th, kh
> >would fit well with a pre-proto-Germanic-like language in
Scandinavia.
> >Perhaps Georgiev's substratum language was spoken in Denmark too
once?
>
> This seems is in contrast with what you sentenced before.
You're right, I wasn't being careful. I was thinking PIE *-ndh- >
Greek -nth- , Germanic -nd-. But we were talking about Pelasgian. But
still, the names are there and they puzzle me. The only stem I can
recognize before -(u)nd- is *Burg- in Burgundærholm (today Bornholm).
and that is a Wanderwort.


>Which is the
> (toponymic, I suppose) material that could lead to such phonetic
features ?
>
> Antonio Sciarretta

As for the toponymic material, follow the link to the cybalist
posting above. They are all island names, agreed by consensus in
place name research to pre-Germanic, possibly pre-IE (ie off limits
to reconstruction attempts, most are single-syllable and enigmatic).

Torsten