Re: Odin the Immigrant?

From: MrCaws@...
Message: 10486
Date: 2001-10-20

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:
> The relation of Jupiter-Mars-Quirinus to Odin-Thor-Freyr was
> studied by Georges Dumezil.
> The Jurist Sovereign lost his hands (Tyr, Nuada, Mucius Scaevola),
while the
> Terrible Sovereign lost one of his eyes (Odinn , Lugh, Horatius
> Mucius and Cocles were characters in the war between Rome and
> Mucius burn his hand himself to swear (falsely) that Romans will
not attack
> (cf. Tyr and Fenrir). Cocles, an one-eyed warrior, stopped the
Etruscan army
> on a bridge.
> I think this could be an explanation of evolution of Germanic
> Dyeus P@... > *Tiuz (Sky Father) - all-father (Latin Jupiter,
Greek Zeus,
> Indian Dyauh-Kas^yapa, Irish Dagde Ollathair)
> ? > *Saxsanautaz (Jurist Sovereign) - lawgiver god (Latin Dius
Fidius -
> Jupiter's epithet-, Indian Mitra, Irish Nuada)
> Wa:tNnos > *Wo:th@... (Terrible Sovereign) - magic god (Latin
> Stator, Indian Varuna)
> Tn@... > *Thunraz (Storm-God) - king of gods, storm god (Latin
> Tonans, Indian Indra)
> We:yus > ? (Wind-God) - strong, huge, violent god (Greek Poseidon,
> Va:yu)

> Tiuz - father of Saxsanautaz, Wo:th@..., Thunraz and Wind-god
> -------------------------------
> Tiuz was merged to Saxsanautaz. (Perhaps Tyr < *Ti:waz < *Deiwos).
Fusion of
> Sky-God and Jurist god is also possible in Lithuanian Deivas. If
Tyr,Tiu <
> *Ti:waz instead of Tiuz, we can simply assume that Wothnaz aborsbed
> and that *Saxsanautaz became *Ti:waz.
> Wo:th@... absorbed the all-father role of Tiuz and royal role of
> (allfather + magic + king)
> Thunraz was identified to Wind-God, but kept the atmospheric
features and
> the name of IE *Tn@... (strength + storm)
> Wo:thnaz - father of Tiuz-Saxsanautaz and Thunraz

Very interesting! I think Odin and Dagda must be related. Besides
from the all-father epithet, Dagda also has a reputation as a
magician, wields a spear, and is known for his musical prowess(Which
I associate with Odin's affinity for poetry).

What I think is interesting is Dagda also is associated with corn and
milk. This connection to corn, and cattle(via milk), makes him a
deity of agriculture, fertility, cattle, music, and magic. I would
think he would fit in the terrible soveirgn magic deity you
These attributes would also fit Hermes(Especially the older bearded
phallic Hermes) or maybe Kronos. He is the father of the thunder god,
after all. I'm still thinking about your other ideas.

Cort Williams

> > --- In cybalist@..., "William P. Reaves" <beowulf@...> wrote:
> >
> > > The case for Tyr as the Dyuas Pater of the Germanic tribes is
> > on
> > > nothing more than etymology of the name. And the theory that the
> > Germans had
> > > an earlier god named *Tiu which was displaced by Odin is
> > unfortunately still
> > > current in many scholarly books.
> > >
> > > I tend to believe that if the Germanics had a god named *Tiu it
> > merely
> > > Odin himself under an earlier name, rather than the god Tyr who
> > > displaced by the migrant Odin.
> >
> >
> > Tyr is interesting, I want to learn more about him. I know
Tuesday is
> > named after Tyr. In Italian, Tuesday is Martedi.
> > I also know one story about him: The gods wanted to bind the
> > wolf, and finally made a chain strong enogh to hold him. They
> > couldn't think of a way to catch him, though, so they decided
> > to trick him. They told the wolf they only wanted to test the
> > strength of the chain, and they would let him go after that. As
> > of their sincerity, Tyr put his right hand in the wolf's mouth.
> > gods broke their word, and Tyr lost a hand.
> > This seems similar to Odin sacrificing his eye for knowledge.
> > gives up one eye to know or see more, Tyr gives up his hand to
> > his word binding. I've read about a pricniple triad of Teutonic
> > deities: Odin, Thor, and Tyr. Maybe this corresponds with the old
> > Roman triad Quirinus, Jupiter, Mars? I'm still working on that
> >
> > Cort Williams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> >
> >