Re: [tied] Re: Odin the Immigrant?

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 10444
Date: 2001-10-19

The relation of Jupiter-Mars-Quirinus to Odin-Thor-Freyr was intensely
studied by Georges Dumezil.
The Jurist Sovereign lost his hands (Tyr, Nuada, Mucius Scaevola), while the
Terrible Sovereign lost one of his eyes (Odinn , Lugh, Horatius Cocles).
Mucius and Cocles were characters in the war between Rome and Etruria.
Mucius burn his hand himself to swear (falsely) that Romans will not attack
(cf. Tyr and Fenrir). Cocles, an one-eyed warrior, stopped the Etruscan army
on a bridge.

I think this could be an explanation of evolution of Germanic patheon

Dyeus P@... > *Tiuz (Sky Father) - all-father (Latin Jupiter, Greek Zeus,
Indian Dyauh-Kas^yapa, Irish Dagde Ollathair)
? > *Saxsanautaz (Jurist Sovereign) - lawgiver god (Latin Dius Fidius -
Jupiter's epithet-, Indian Mitra, Irish Nuada)
Wa:tNnos > *Wo:th@... (Terrible Sovereign) - magic god (Latin Jupiter
Stator, Indian Varuna)
Tn@... > *Thunraz (Storm-God) - king of gods, storm god (Latin Jupiter
Tonans, Indian Indra)
We:yus > ? (Wind-God) - strong, huge, violent god (Greek Poseidon, Indian

Tiuz - father of Saxsanautaz, Wo:th@..., Thunraz and Wind-god

Tiuz was merged to Saxsanautaz. (Perhaps Tyr < *Ti:waz < *Deiwos). Fusion of
Sky-God and Jurist god is also possible in Lithuanian Deivas. If Tyr,Tiu <
*Ti:waz instead of Tiuz, we can simply assume that Wothnaz aborsbed *Tiuz,
and that *Saxsanautaz became *Ti:waz.

Wo:th@... absorbed the all-father role of Tiuz and royal role of Thun@...
(allfather + magic + king)
Thunraz was identified to Wind-God, but kept the atmospheric features and
the name of IE *Tn@... (strength + storm)

Wo:thnaz - father of Tiuz-Saxsanautaz and Thunraz

----- Original Message -----
From: <MrCaws@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 8:40 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Odin the Immigrant?

> --- In cybalist@..., "William P. Reaves" <beowulf@...> wrote:
> > The case for Tyr as the Dyuas Pater of the Germanic tribes is based
> on
> > nothing more than etymology of the name. And the theory that the
> Germans had
> > an earlier god named *Tiu which was displaced by Odin is
> unfortunately still
> > current in many scholarly books.
> >
> > I tend to believe that if the Germanics had a god named *Tiu it was
> merely
> > Odin himself under an earlier name, rather than the god Tyr who was
> > displaced by the migrant Odin.
> Tyr is interesting, I want to learn more about him. I know Tuesday is
> named after Tyr. In Italian, Tuesday is Martedi.
> I also know one story about him: The gods wanted to bind the Fenris
> wolf, and finally made a chain strong enogh to hold him. They
> couldn't think of a way to catch him, though, so they decided instead
> to trick him. They told the wolf they only wanted to test the
> strength of the chain, and they would let him go after that. As proof
> of their sincerity, Tyr put his right hand in the wolf's mouth. The
> gods broke their word, and Tyr lost a hand.
> This seems similar to Odin sacrificing his eye for knowledge. Odin
> gives up one eye to know or see more, Tyr gives up his hand to make
> his word binding. I've read about a pricniple triad of Teutonic
> deities: Odin, Thor, and Tyr. Maybe this corresponds with the old
> Roman triad Quirinus, Jupiter, Mars? I'm still working on that idea.
> Cort Williams
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