Re: [tied] Re-evaluating Dereivka nad Yamna

From: george knysh
Message: 10283
Date: 2001-10-16

--- lsroute66@... wrote:
> I may be wrong but it would seem that the surprise
> re-dating of the
> often cited Dereivka horse skull to the iron age
> would justify a
> degree of re-evaluating across the board.

*****GK: I've read mentions of this re-dating. Can you
direct me to a source with the analysis? That is
certainly a major matter,involving an "error" of
nearly 4 millennia...*****
As far as
> Dereivka horse
> bits, where are they and have they been lab-dated?
*****GK: There were 6 of them. Described in Telegin's
"Seredno-Stohivs'ka kultura epokhy midi" ("The
Serednyj Stih culture of the Copper Age" [better known
in the West by the Russian "Sredny Stog"](Kiev/Kyiv,
1973, pp. 137-139.) Telegin includes photographs. They
were all made from deer bone. I don't know if they've
been lab-dated since then.*****
> Furthermore, where
> are all the similar horsebits that should be lying
> somewhere around
> Europe between these circa 3500 BC dates and the
> bronze age? Have any
> been found west of the Ukraine? Shouldn't they be
> there?
*****GK: Good questions. Telegin cites an article by
A. Mozsolics (AA, t. III, pp. 1-4, 1953) which claims
that such bronze age bits were found in the basin of
the Carpathian mnts. I haven't read it.******
> As to Yamna, I read in Levine, Rassamakin, Kislenko
> and Tatarintseva,
> "Late prehistoric exploitation of the Eurasian
> steppe," (David Brown
> 1998) that Yuri Rassamakin not only found no
> evidence to indicate
> horses were harnessed or ridden in the region in the
> early bronze age,
> but that the horse "is virtually absent from the
> Yamnaya
> archaeological record."

*****GK: Kul'baka notes the bone horse bits from Yamna
burials (2000, p.64). I find Rassamakin's contention
rather surprising to say the least. You don't suppose
that the fact he was published by the Renfrew people
has anything to do with it? (:=))*****
> Ten years ago I had some faith in the the ties
> between Ukraine
> horsemen, the last date of PIE unity and *ekwos as a
> paleolinguistic
> proof of some kind.

*****GK: I'm off to teach a class. When I get back
I'll post sone interesting stuff on "*ekwos in that
These days, it would nice to
> see the whole thing
> re-evaluated from scratc
****GK: A good idea for any day.*******


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