--- In cybalist@..., malmqvist52@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., markodegard@... wrote:
> > Torsten writes:
> > --
> > This means that with the wide-spread use of English (and the
> > consequent(?) reduced knowledge of their own language) people
will
> > resort to using English when communicating with other
> Scandinavians.
> > Knowing and understanding the other Scandinavian languages is
> > considered nerdy.
> > --
> >
> > Ah. The North-Germanic speakers don't really love their languages.
>
> I strongly disagree with theese last two statements.
>
> I'm always amazed when I talk to a dane or norweigan that they
always
> convert to speak swedish. And they succeed very well in it i think.
> Also danish reseachers e. g. in interviwevs in news etc. do
convert
> to something swedish like when they're in swedish tv.
I think the key word here is "researchers". To people with that level
of education, Scandinavian languages is not a problem. So we really
don't disagree here. Swedish sports coaches in Denmark also get by
with replacing Swedish words with Danish ones. Also, I have to admit,
personally the Swedish language fascinates me, especially the
Stockholm version, but then, who can explain a preference? I think
there is a reason why a good deal of today's pop songs come from
Stockholm. Sometimes you can hear they were thought in Swedish.
One of the reasons Swedes (that is Upp-Swedes, away from the West
coast) are poor at modifying their speech to suit Danes or Norwegians
is that they don't have (as far as I know) Danish (or Norwegian) TV
on cable, whereas we have at least on three channels. Recently, the
viewers west of the Storebælt (ie. Fyn and Jutland) here voted out
all Swedish channels (but kept the Norwegian ones), replacing them
with German ones.
You can find some anti-Swedism in especially working-class
Copenhagen. I recall a documentary on TV about the building of the
Öresund bridge between our two countries. The Danish workers were
very upset that the Swedes would want to work overtime when asked to
so, without compensation. "We will have to teach them how to do
things", they said. As I recall, it ended with the Danes
(Copenhageners) being less belligerent towards the Swedes, and in
particular, one particularly bitchy Copenhagen canteen owner being
frozen out. Anyway, a good deal of the Copenhagen workers and
artisans are ethnically Germans, their ancestors having come here to
work for our German kings. Their hearts are still in Rostock and
Berlin.
> It has occured to me that I (at least earlier) never have in the
same
> way converted to danish when speakingto a dane, but instead adress
> them in Swedish (with some danish words). This seems to work
> perfectly, since the Danes understand me anyway. But of course I'm
> embarrassed- I shouldn't speak Swedish in Denmark I should at least
> TRY to speak Danish!
> So why don't I ?
> I think it has to do with the glottal stop "stöten". I sort of know
> that I wouldn't pronounce it right, and therefore it would sound
> strange, and also be embarrassing.
> I think it is the same when children learn a new language. They
> understand words much earlier than the day when they finally dare
to
> utter them.
>
> I think it's the same with Norweigan since most norweigans speak
> some or another West Scandinavian dialect, which sounds to be quite
> far from Swedish, it feels a little embarrasing to use the at least
> semi-eastern Scandinavian bokmål, which peraps anyway wouldnt be
> pronunced right.
> So, if you speak to a norweigan only once in a while, why bother
> learning West Scandinavian, when they instead know East
Scandinavian
> perfectly well.
> It's of course another matter if you would have lots of contacts
with
> Norweigans.
>
> BTW I think this danish "stöten" glottal stop is a really
fascinating
> subject.
> Why dit it enter the language? And how?
> Any theories?
According to what I read, the Danish "stød" (glottal stop)
corresponds to Swedish Musical Accent I. Musical Accentt II (although
more similar to a glottal stop) has left no trace in Danish.
The dialects in the areas Alfred the Great describes as belonging to
the South Danes (Fyn, the South Sea Islands (ie. Lolland, Falster))
have no "stød". This fact is usually used to calm non-Danish people
who are worried that they can't find out where to place the "stød"
(note that the glottal stop is thus a prosodic feature in Danish, not
a phoneme, although you can find minimal pairs <man?> "man" /
<man> "one, you")
BTW Recently I saw that research has shown that different languages
activate differents parts (or different subsets of parts) of the
brain. Obviously, as languages get more unlike their written
representation (No 1 in Europe: English, no 2: Danish, no 3 French)
people tend to read it more like Chinese, the whole word becomes an
indivisible gestalt. Maybe you can find a physiological base for your
preference of languages.
>
> Cheers
> Anders
Skål
Torsten