From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 9534
Date: 2001-09-16
----- Original Message -----
From: <MrCaws@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Nostradamus and Dumezil
> --- In cybalist@..., cas111jd@... wrote:
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> Very interesting points. I agree there are many connections here.
>
>
> > I suspect that perhaps the Hebrew 'world serpent' Yamm was also
> > adopted from Azi Dahaka. In Zoroastrian religion, the evil god
> > Ahriman seems on the one hand to have made Azi Dahaka, but also to
> by
> > synonymous with him. Basically, it seems that the Hebrew name for
> him
> > suggests he was the 'evil twin' of god and synonymous with Satan.
> As
> > you know, the Norse Ymir, Persian Yima, and Hindu Yama are all
> > derived from a root meaning 'twin', and that Ahriman and Ormazd
> were
> > also twins.
>
> I'm not so sure we can establish a direction of borrowing for Yam. He
> is a pretty ancient mythological figure in Canaanite myth.
>
>
>
>
> > In Zoroastrian religion, Ahriman and Ormazd are depicted as a black
> > snake and white snake biting an egg. This is the primordial egg
> that
> > seems to represent Spihr and/or Zurvan, the primordial creator god.
> > These eggs are often seen as a disc or orb and also associated with
> > gods such as Mithra. They don't have rays such as we would expect
> > with a sun-god, but they do often have wings.
>
> > This is the weird part: the Greek caduseus is a black and white
> snake
> > winding around a staff with a winged disc at the top. I believe
> this
> > is the motif as expressed in Zoroastrianism, with the staff and
> > winged disc being Spihr, which is basically a version of the 'world
> > tree' or 'north pole' with the primordial world egg at the top.
>
> > The caduseus was an attribute of Apollo before be gave it to his
> son
> > Asclepius.
>
> The caduceus does seem to be related to the world tree, perhaps an
> analogy for it. It is a symbol of power both over life,death, and
> healing, and magical power in general.
> Apollo played the role of healing/plague diety, as well as deity of
> prophecy. The other guy who had it, Hermes, was a trickster magician
> diety who also played the role of psychopomp.
>
> I used to wonder how Apollo was depicted as a serpent on
> > Delos, or even how he slew the Python at Delphi considering he was
> in
> > no way a thunder-god. Now I know. Delphi was the center of the
> world
> > in Greek tradition. Ormazd defeated Ahriman in the center of the
> > world before casting him into the abyss. Apollo continued this same
> > myth in Greece. Even his birthplace on Delos makes sense: the
> > heavenly paradise located in the center of the world, where is
> > located in Persian myth the 'world mountain' as is found on Delos.
>
> I would argue that Apollo took on the role of serpent slayer because
> he played the role of cultural hero. The thunder deity(Thor, Perun
> etc) often plays this role, but others do as well. Hercules for
> example. Since Apollo was a big cheese cultural hero, esp. in the
> Aegean and W. Anatolia, this slaying makes sense. There is also a
> freudian hero element to the story, as one version of the story has a
> serpent molesting Leto, and Apollo then taking his vengeance. This,
> though, seems to be connected to a Canaanite story about Laton(Leto),
> and Yamm as the serpent, interestingly enough.
>
> In addition, this story bolsters Apollo's claim to deity of prophecy
> by defeating a demonized version of a predecessor.
>
> -Mr. Caws
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