Re: [tied] Re: Anouilh

From: Che
Message: 9496
Date: 2001-09-15

I found this about gascon phonetics. In my opinion all these are pure basque traits, except of the l > u, which is also found in eastern occitan (provençau)

Característiques del gascó: trets evolutius

  1. Pas de F llatina a H, en alguns llocs aspirada:
    FERRUM> hèr
  2. Caiguda de N intervocàlica: FARINA> haria
  3. Pas de L final de síl·laba a U semivocal: SAL> sau
  4. Evolució de LL llatina interior o final a TH:
    VITELLU> vedèth
  5. LL intervocàlica passa a R: BELLA> bèra
  6. Aparició de A- protètica davant de R inicial, doblant-se així la R: ROTA> arròda
  7. Metàtesi de –R: VENTRUM> vrente

Quadre comparatiu amb d’altres llengües romàniques:
LLATÍ francès italià castellà català aranès
FESTA fête festa fiesta festa hèsta
LUNA lune luna luna lluna lua
MELE miel mele miel mel mèu
CASTELLUM château castello castillo castell castèth
ILLA elle lei ella ella era
RIDERE rire ridere reir riure arrir
CAPRA

chèvre		 capra cabra cabra craba
----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Anouilh

On Fri, 14 Sep 2001 11:39:44 -0700, Max Dashu <maxdashu@...>
wrote:

>This has been confusing me ever since Piotr wrote something that seemed to
>equate Occitan and Gascon. I had always thought Gascon was much more
>influenced by Basque, as per the name. But on reflection, endings like -itz
>in trobaritz sure don't look Romance, and sound more like Basque. What is
>the story with these two: both have an Aquitanian substrate, but Occitan
>more romanized, or what?

There is very little Basque in Gascon morphology, syntax or lexicon.
Only in the phonology is the fact that Gascon is a Romance language on
a Vasconic substrate somewhat better recognizable.  There is no reason
to assume a Basque substrate in the other Occitan dialects.

What is "trobaritz"?  I think "you (pl.) will find" in Occitan should
be "trobaretz", which is quite an unremarkable form (Latin 2pl. *-etis
-> Fr. -ez, Occ. -etz, Cast. -eis, Rom. -et,i /-ets'/) in comparison
with the bizarre Catalan -eu < *-eT < *-ets < -etis.



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