[tied] Re: Scientific Nationalism?

From: VAgarwalV@...
Message: 9110
Date: 2001-09-06

--- In cybalist@..., "Christopher Gwinn" <sonno3@...> wrote:

> Piotr is the last person on this list that I would accuse of being
> fanatical - and he very rarely has anything to say which can be
> characterized as erroneous. You may disagree with it, buut Piotr
> usually has some solid facts (or at least widely accepted theores)
to
> back up his statements (unlike many others on this list right now).
>

VA: Mr. Piotr certainly does not have enough facts to caricature
people who oppose AIT and its euphemistic versions. In fact, such
caricaturing is seem in the works of SEVERAL Indo-Europeanists. Can be
expect something better please? As I have shown, both Indigenists and
THEIR opponents adhere to theories which have profound political and
ideological implications and support. One is not better than the other
from that perspective at least. If anything, indeginists are perhaps
more harmless, if the historical record is considered.

>
> If one were to measure the quality of posts on this list, I would
say
> that Piotr is perhaps the most mature out of all of us. He shows a
> tremendous amount of patience with some of the more quirky members,
> and can always be counted on to give a well thought out, fact-based
> response, which he can back up with citations from recognized and
> well respected academic sources.
VA: Kindly go to his posts about a week back wherein they seem to drip
only with abuse and scorn. Not with facts. For instance, refer message

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/8884

Some portions of the above message are offensive to people of Indian
origin, even those like me who do not subscribe to Hindutva or Hindu
nationalism.

I am sure you are offended by my remarks, but my intention was merely
to show that in this 'post enlightenment' age, such comments are very
anachronistic, whether uttered by me or by Mr. Piotr.


>
> It is never a good policy if you are a new member of a list to show
> up and immediately start attacking its more venerable members.
VA: I agree that as a new comer I should be careful. But conversely,
is it not alarming that the venerable members indulge in such
disgusting abuse and scorn for people holding a particular viewpoint ?
The contempt was also reflected by Markograd the other day when he
labelled some members of another list as 'nutcase nationalists' -
maybe he is annoyed because some members of that list showed how
dishonest he was.


> If this were Usenet, I would say that Godwin's law should be invoked
> and the thread ended.

VA: I gladly second your suggestion and want to add that abuse of
other lists and people holding 'non-mainstream views' should also not
be tolerated in this list. Especially by students of a field that
still has not been able to decide on the homeland of PIE despite
labors of hundreds of specialists!

My only intention was to urge list members to refrain from making
silly remarks against certain people of Indian origin or against
people holding certain opinions when the so called 'consensus' in the
'mainstream' opinion is merely a consensus of the weary, or a
reflection of hesitation in accepting defeat. Let the IE scholars
first pin-point the PIE homeland (since logically all their data and
sophisticated methodologies and complex models should lead us right
there) before ridiculing others.

Regards

Vishal