Re: [tied] Vw again

From: Danny Wier
Message: 8990
Date: 2001-09-03

It's original with me.  As someone else pointed out the Catalan was incorrect; I had that confused with Rhaeto-Romanic, which uses the <tg> digraph where Spanish has <ch>, Catalan has <tx> and Italian and Romanian have <ci/ce>.
 
Which brings up something: how bout a discussion on the fragmentation of Vulgar Latin into the modern Romance languages?
 
Arabic I think is increasingly using letters normally used in Persian for five additional consonants, using a three-dot marking:
 
beh > peh (three dots below)
jiim > chiim (three dots inside/below)
zeh > zheh (three dots above)
feh > veh (three dots above)
kaaf > gaaf (a diagonal line parallel to the top mark of kaaf)
 
Modern Hebrew uses the geresh (resembles an apostrophe) for extended consonants for sounds found in loans:
 
gimel > "j"
zayin > "zh"
tsade > "ch"
Also, peh without dagesh (dot inside letter) is "f"; final "p" sometimes marked by the non-final glyph for peh.
 
A lot of these conventions are used in Ladino and Judeo-Arabic; Yiddish uses different conventions as well as these digraphs: vav-vav (Hebrew uses it for "w" I think), yod-yod and vav-yod (the diphthongs ei/ai and oi resp.).
 
Devanagari and its cousins in India use the nukta (point below) for Persian, English and other loans:
 
k > q
kh > x
g > G
j > z
ph > f
y > zh (?)
Hindi has d./d.h > r./r.h for retroflex flaps.
 
The vowels /æ/ and /å/:
Initially: the "full" vowel letters "e" and "o" with the chandra (half-moon turned upward)
After consonants: chandra on the akshara itself and chandra on the long-a marker.
These are especially important for Gujarati.
Something similar is used for the short "e" and "o" in Dravidian languages written with Devanagari.
 
As for Pinyin: the predecessor of Pinyin, the non-Roman system of transliteration named Bopomofo, has some extended letters for non-Mandarin dialects: v, initial ng-, the voiced stops, final -m, final stops, nasalized vowels.  Other than that, I'm not aware of anything.
 
~DaW~
----- Original Message -----
From: markodegard@...
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 02 September, 2001 22:48
Subject: Re: [tied] Vw again

Danny Wier:
> German: Tschaikowsky
> French: Tchaikovsky
> English: Chaikovsky
...
> Arabic: Tshayqofskii
> Hebrew: Ts'ayqopskii
> Turkish: Çaykovski

Nice. Original with you, or something you cribbed from elsewhere?

It would be nice if this could be extended/corrected.

The transliterations of transliterations (Hebrew and Greek) need
extending -- Arabic, Devanagri, and Pinyin for sure. This is one name
that exists in ALL important human languages, and since each important
human language seems to have its own rules for transliterating
Cyrillic letters, we get a jolly orthographic babel.