Ed reacts:
>Sorry, /Larths/ does exist. I do wish you would look at
>the CIE before you say that words do or don't exist.
And I do wish that you'd provide the exact context within which
this is found so as to rule out the obvious possibility that
it is a _nominative_ ending as we find for other names like
/Tin-s/ "Jupiter".
>Also some people gloss /Larthia/ as a female name.
Possible. But then there's /Tinia/ "Jupiter". I am skeptical of
"feminine" endings in Etruscan. I think "diminuitive" is a more
appropriate label. Diminuitives are used not only for small
people/things, or as feminine endings, but also for demonstrating
affection or intimacy.
>Anyway, I just meant that the dative was the origin of Etruscan
>/-l/.
However, your single, ad-hoc connection with the verb /al-/ is
hardly justified and, unlike a true linguist, you fail to
address the origins of Etruscan declension in terms of a larger
system. The latter is my strategy.
>In the same way, we can see that /-ale/ is the dative in
>the Raetic inscriptions. Thus,
>
>upiku pheluriesi phelvinuale: "Offering (cf. Etr. /up-/)
>from Feluria to Felvinua"
The question here is: Of what you state, which is your own
strange translations and what is truely known by the few
Rhaetic experts that exist in the world?
First, I don't remember coming across Etruscan /up-/ for "to give".
I remember a root /alp-/. If there exists /up-/ I would reason
that /alp-/ is the fuller, more archaic version. (The vowels /a/ and /u/
alternate a whole bunch in Etruscan.) However, this may be
a moot point since we might still theoretically relate Rhaetic
/upiku/ with an Etruscan perfective /alpa-ce/ "has offered".
Now, things get tricky. If we assume that the first word is a
verb, we must find the subject. More often than not, VSO is seen
more than VOS, and so we might automatically expect /phelurie-si/,
which looks to be a proper name with a familiar ending /-ie/,
to be the subject. However, this assumption is hampered by another,
completely valid possibility that the last two items of this phrase
are *BOTH* the subject, connected by an implied "and".
As such, how might you stop me from translating /upiku pheluriesi
phelvinuale/ as: "Feluria [and] Felvinua have given [offerings]."?
>paniun laSuanuale upiku perunies sxaispala: "Votive (cf.
>Etr. /alpan/) to Lasuanua offering from Perunia Scespalis"
Erh... It's spelled /laSanuale/ with only one "u".
But again, we can validly interpret things a radically different
way. Ignoring the automatic insecurity in the translation of
these individual words, how might we rule out the
possibility that /laSanuale/ is part of a larger noun phrase
/paniun laSanuale/ (meaning: "Lasanua's votive"). In which
case, Perunia Scespalis has offered Lashanua's votive.
>The one consisting mainly of an article by R.S.P. Beekes,
>whom you described as a lunatic a few months back (and I
>defended), for suggesting an ergative origin for /-s/?
I don't judge a person a lunatic by their name, only their ideas.
In the specific case of an ergative origin of /-s/... Yes, it is
a bad idea. However, I do admit that there may have been an
"agentive" usage of the genitive case in IndoTyrrhenian, with the
patient in the nominative, following the pattern *[X-se Y Z] and
meaning "By way of X, Y was Z-ed". In this case, the verb
becomes passive without being explicitly marked much like we find
in passive sentences in Mandarin. However, this doesn't mean
that *-se was ever an ergative or absolutive case ending at all.
The main usage of this ending was certainly genitive amongst all
IndoTyrrhenian languages.
>I'll come back to you later on this idea you have that
>Etruscan is flexional.
Take your best shot. The Etruscan site I directed you to even
explicitly mentioned the word "flexion". Please! Surely you jest.
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