Re: [tied] Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 8550
Date: 2001-08-16

Well, I was not saying that in IE mythology the horse is allways associated to apocalyptical destruction, but that there's some traits of an older myth involving a horse (or a mare) in a kind of proto-Ragnarok. There was also traits of supernatural horses helping heroes, like Pegasus or Areion. Speaking of Pegasos... could be ending -asos akin to Indo-Iranian ashva?
So, Pe:gasos < * Bhaga-asva "Godly Horse"? Perhaps originally *Bagasos, later due folk-etymological association with pe:ge: "well, fountain" turned into Pa:gasos?
 
 
Joao SL
Rio, Brazil
----- Original Message -----
From: Alexander Stolbov
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:08 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince

There is a magic horse in Russian tales. It's name is Sivka-Burka what means "of Grey and Brown colour". The run of the horse is always described with a stable rhythmic and partly rhymed formula:
 
Kon' bezhit - zemlya drozhit,
Iz nozdrey plamya pyshet,
Iz ushey dym valit. 
 
(The horse is running - the earth is shaking,
Flame is blazing from the nostrils,           
Smoke is belching from the ears.)
 
However the horse doesn't produce earthquake or any destruction, it just helps to the hero - Ivan the Prince.
 
I wonder whether an analogous character is presented in other Slavic folklore traditions.
 
Alexander
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 5:10 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Odin as a Trojan Prince

In a message dated 8/15/01 7:35:24 PM Central Daylight Time,
jodan99@... writes:
I think that Trojan war is a mix of real facts
with mythological substrata.
Trojan War is a kind of "grand finale" of Greek Mythology, so I sugest it's
like a euhemerized version of a Proto-Greek Ragnarok, like Mahabharata in
India. The fireburn of Ilion, and the presence of Trojan Horse is very
similar to the apocalyptical horses in India: the horse-headed undersea
fire, whose destiny is to destroy the world, and the last avatar of Vishnu,
the horse-headed giant Kalki. The Norse equivalente is Surtr, although with
no aparent equine element.



The horse is associated with Poseidon, god of the sea as well as the god of
the quaking earth, i.e. the thunder of horses.  Is this association contained
within the religious tradition of other Indo-European cultures?   Any
linguistic association between thundering horses and earthquakes?

   Are there parallels in language groups that would indicate a PIE origin
within some of the families or does the supposed steppe origin which lacks
earthquakes preclude such considerations?  Italy, the Balkans, Anatolia, Iran
and Afghanistan all have earthquake fault systems that create periodic
disasters.  Does the Ukraine?

   I hope  you find these questions more interesting to research than
Satem/Centum discussions.

Best regards,  John Piscopo
http://www.johnpiscoposwords.com
PO Box 137
Western Springs, IL 60558-0137
(708)246-7111
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