Re: Inguaeonum [was Celtic Jutland]

Joseph wrote:

> The descendants of Ingvaeones are the Cimbri, Teutoni, and Chauci
>
> The descendants of Istvaeones are the Triboci, Nemetes, Vangiones,
> Ubii, Usipi, and Tencteri
>
> The descendants of Herminiones are the Chatti, Cherusci,

Hermunduri,

> and Suebi
>
> Tacitus also wrote that there was another later tradition that
> claimed after these sons
> several others were born to Mannus.
>
> These were Vandili, Gambrivii, Marsi, and Suebi
>
> The Suebi are interesting because first they appear as Herminiones,
> then later are listed as independent, among others of which all but
> Gambrivii appears to be of Nordic origin. There is no doubt that

the

> Istvaeonic group were Celt-speakers, strong indications the
> Ingvaeonic group were Celt-speakers, indications that some of the
> Erminionic group were Celt-speakers and others were Nordic-German
> speakers. However, using a little semantic slight of hand,
> Ingvaeonic, Istvaeonic, and Erminionic has been applied, only to
> languages of Nordic-German origin.

I don't think it is at all certain what language the people in you
Istvaeonic group spoke. The Nemetes and Triboci may have been Celtic -
but the others are very likely to have been Germanic speakers with a
Celticized elite (just as the later omano-Britons were Celtic
speaking with a Romanized elite that took Latin names and created
monuments with Latin inscriptions on them, etc). You need to actually
cite some evidence when making grand statements like this.

- Chris Gwinn