Re: [tied] English.

From: markodegard@...
Message: 7988
Date: 2001-07-20

--- In cybalist@..., "Sergejus Tarasovas" <S.Tarasovas@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> > Do they? No doubt some linguistic fashions cross the ocean, but
> they don't amount to much -- say, things like final stress
> in "harass" or an occasional "I don't have" for "I haven't got";
>
> When in London the only usage of 'have' I had a chance to hear from
> the people of thirty and younger was completely 'regularized'
> one: "Do you have...", "I don't have.." etc. I was just starving for
> good old "Have you (got)..." from British English textbooks, but I
> was unlucky.
>
> Sergei

Oof.

'Got' is the most difficult verb in English. There seems to be a
genuine grammatical difference between AmE and BrE, tho' this
grammatical difference is very hard to define.

'Got' here is not simply the preterit/past participle of 'get'.
Present tense 'get' is actually rather regular.

My own view is that AmE 'got' (and not 'get') is close to being, and
perhaps has fully become an inflection of 'to be'; perhaps marking a
distinct aspect.

The confusion begins with the fact that AmE has conserved the past
participle 'gotten'; it's archaic in BrE. Usually, 'get' means
'obtain'.

The other confusion is the fact that 'get/got' can also mean
'become/became', which can lead to some very strange sentences like
'he got arrested' (where/who is the agent?). One shivers at such
sentences, and reaches to the term 'ergative' for an explanation. The
agent is external to the sense of the sentence, and is left
unmentioned. It's the condition or state expressed by the verb, acting
upon the grammatical subject, which is the topic of the sentence.

AmE tends to drop 'have' before 'got'. A simple 'got' usually means
'have obtained', 'do enjoy the use of'. I got rhythm = I enjoy the use
of rhythm, vs. I have got rhythm = I have obtained
knowledge/skill in rhythm vs. I have rhythm = I possess the ability to
display rhythm.

Actually, I think the confusion is transpondential. It's up to the
grammarians to define what has happened.

Another grammatical quirk is my observation that 'I insist that ...'
is not subjunctive but probably a sort of optative; I'm suggesting
that 'I wish, I hope' constructions can be expressed negatively in
English.