Re: [tied] aks.ara, Sanskrit; is there an IE cognate?

I think, at least in Latin, gutural+S developped in s (cf. sitis), while
dental+gutural clusters lost the dental (cf. homo, heri)

----- Original Message -----
From: petegray <petegray@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] aks.ara, Sanskrit; is there an IE cognate?


> The word in question (Skt a-ksara ~ Gk phthisis) is one of a handful
> discussed in the literature, where Skt ks. corresponds to Greek kt, pt,
> khth, or phth. At one stage it was suggested that PIE had the phoneme
/T/,
> called in English "thorn". Hence the title of an article of Schindler in
> Die Sprache: "A Thorny Problem". His analysis shows the following
> patterns:
>
> Pokorny Vedic Avestan Greek
> k'T ks. s^ kt
> kT ks. xs^ kt
> kwT ks. - pt
> g'hT ks. - khth
> gwhT ks. Gz^ phth
>
> The best known of these are the "earth", "fish", "yesterday", "bear"
roots.
> The consonant following the root vowel (ie at the end of the root) is
never
> a stop. This is also true for all roots in Greek where pt alternates with
> p, or where Greek pt corresponds to p outside Greek.
>
> Hittite apears to have tk or tek
> Toch A has tk, Toch B k or ks
>
> Armenian collapses these with *ks
> Albanian has dh, dj
> Baltic and Slavic collapse the k' forms with the k's, and the other words
> are not attested.
>
> Germanic dehsa (axe) suggests -ks- < (Pokorny) *tek'T
> while guman, gestern point only to a guttural.
>
> Celtic: the regular reflex is a /t/
>
> Italic sitis, texo, ursus suggest *ks
> humus, homo, heri only the guttural appears.
>
> Greek : the dialects occasionally show ks or sk in alternation with kt
>
> Schindler then goes on to analyse the various options for what was in PIE,
> but his conclusion is out of sync with Venneman's analysis in the "New
Sound
> of Indo-European" (1989).
>
> Venneman concludes that we simply have a metathesis of an original *tk,
> *dgh, or without metathesis a straightforward development from *gwdh, or
> *gti. In particular the phthisis ~ ksiti- ~ a-ksara word is taken back
to
> *gwdhi-.
>
> Does that answer the question?
>
> Peter
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: 19 June 2001 23:43
> Subject: Re: [tied] aks.ara, Sanskrit; is there an IE cognate?
>
>
> I think aks.ara = a-ks.ara- 'not melting away, imperishable' (opposite of
> ks.ara-), hence 'something permanent, record, writing', a derivative of
> {ks.ar-}, cf. ks.arati 'flows, melts away, vanishes'. The latter often
> regarded as related to Gk. phtheiro: 'destroy, spoil' (< *phther-jo:),
> phthora: 'destruction, decay, deterioration', though the semantic
evolution
> behind these meanings is not quite clear.
>
> The protoform would apparently be something like *gWHs-er-, maybe
ultimately
> cognate to *gWHs-ei- (with a different "root extension") as in Skt.
> ks.in.a:ti/ks.in.oti 'destroys, exhausts' Gk. phthin(w)o: 'decay, perish;
> destroy', and in the celebrated adjective (Gk. aphthito-, Skt. aks.ita-)
of
> the poetic formula *n-gWHsitom k^lewos 'imperishable fame'.
>
> Further cognates, anybody?
>
> Piotr
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: S.Kalyanaraman
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2001 11:23 PM
> Subject: [tied] aks.ara, Sanskrit; is there an IE cognate?
>
>
> aks.ara = unalterable; sacrifice; sword; a letter, a vowel,
> a sound, a word (Skt.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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