[tied] Re: Etruscan and Anatolian

--- In cybalist@..., "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...> wrote:

>
> >Interesting. I like with the old chthonic god idea, though I still
> >think the name could well be IE in origin.
>
> I didn't say it wasn't. There's IE *PerkWnos afterall that does

look a

> teensy bit similar. Of course, there's still some kinks to be

ironed out

> concerning the exact form of the reconstruction because later

associations

> and wordplays have obscured the original name of the deity.

*PerkWnos is

> what JP Mallory offers. I've argued for an earlier form like *Pexwr-

Gennos

> meaning "Fire-Maker" because being a storm god, he throws lightning

bolts

> causing fire and it would have connections with Asian mythology.

The name

> would be later corrupted by old associations with the oak tree,

being later

> called *PerkWnos, possibly meaning "Of the Oak".
>
> Now, the name *Pexwr-Gennos could have been adopted by Tyrrhenians

in the

> Balkans, pronouncing it something like *Pexelkan or just *Pexel

whose cult

> would spread out into the Eastern Mediterranean soon after (Semitic

*Ba`lu

> => Baal). The Tyrrhenian name would be handed down, slightly

contorted, to

> the Etruscans as /Velchans/ where *p rather unexpectedly

becomes /v/ by some

> later religious wordplay that I haven't pinned down yet. Basically,

the

> following scenario, similar to what I propose now for "Hathor":
>
> IE *PexwrGennos => Tyr *Pexel(kan) => Sem *Ba`lu
> (Etruscan Velchans)
>
>
> IE *Xster => Tyr *Hattor => Sem *`ATtaritu, Egy Hathor
> (Etruscan Turan)
>
> >I have heard that this deity is known for stealing cattle, not

unlike >the

> >old story with Hermes.
>
> Actually, as far as I've drawn everything out, it was a dangerous

serpent

> called Three Heads that stole the cattle from First Man, the mortal

hero,

> not the storm god Fire Maker. Three Heads was to serve as First

Man's second

> labour to make up for killing his brother Twin. Lucky for Twin

however, the

> tears of the mother Sun Maiden would rejuvenate his lifeless body,
> transforming it into the earth, complete with vegetation. This

would thereby

> make Twin (*Yemos) an earth deity as well as guarding the realm of

the dead

> (note: Kurgan culture and the religious significance with burial).
>
> As I say, the serpent was First Man's second strife, created by Cow

Mother,

> the goddess of justice (Hera, Juno), wife of Sky Father (Jupiter,

Tiw). She

> would create three such labours to torture First Man before he

would be

> forgiven by the divine community. Cow Mother and Sky Father are sky

gods

> associated with the priest caste but also with justic and law,

respectively.

> It is a god of the warrior caste, Fire Maker (the others being

Venus and

> Grandson of the Deeps) that _helps_ the hero slay the serpent,

probably

> reluctantly and only after First Man had served the storm god

through

> worship.
>
> So, this whole hero-slaying-dragon story was created:
>
> 1. to explain the origin of the rivers of the earth, which are
> like serpents winding through the land.
>
> 2. to explain action and consequence, law and justice, through
> the story of First Man atoning for his fratricide by
> enduring strife (cf. Heracles & the Labours, Pandora's Box).
>
> 3. to establish the necessity of worship to gain the favour of
> the gods when times are tough.
>
>
> >How about Vel Turms for Voltumna? Just a guess. As long as I
> >am guessing, if Velchans is of a similar nature, tehn how about
> >Sethlans=Set(h). This is another chthonic deity, maybe more

familiar

> >to the Aegean type folk via Crete/Egypt?
>
> It would be hard to explain the -lans part of the Etruscan name and

plus,

> Sethlans is a fire deity, not a storm deity.
>
> >I think you are right about the quadrant as an original divider.
> >Usually I hear of a trinity of head honcho Etruscan divinities:Uni,
> >Tinia, and Menrva. I am not sure where the quadrant thing plays in,
> >but I am thinking it is closely related to astronomy taken via Near
> >East.
>
> Yes, yes. I promised a post that would give my explanation on all

that. As

> soon as I get through all my messages (aaaaargghhhh) :) For now,

I'll just

> say that an original Tyrrhenian quadrant plan would derive from the

tanist

> scheme, not the trinity scheme. More later.

I don't think Veles/Veltha/Vala is a storm deity, though. I see
this deity as a god of natural power, death, the otherworld, cattle,
the forest.
I have found several instances of this deity stealing the Thunder
god's cattle. Slavic Veles stole Perun's cattle, Baltic Vels stole
Percunas' cattle, Indo-Iranian Vala stole Indra's cattle. The outlier
was the Greek version, where Hermes stole Apollo's cattle. Hermes has
some attributes of a God of the underworld, but Apollo isn't exactly
a storm god traditionally. However, the Etruscan Apulu had lightning
attributes, usually regarding divination...
If Velchans is related to this Vel divinity, then I think the
connection must lie elsewhere. One of Velchans' prinmary attributes
was metalworking. Ore is taken from within the mountain,
traditionally the land of the dead in many mythos.
I admit my Sethlans connection is problematic, though. Good luck on
the backlog of messages, I am looking forward to the tanist post.
-Mr. Caws


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