Re: [tied] Re: The last European Iranians

From: Steve Woodson
Message: 6094
Date: 2001-02-14

Sorry Piotr, I didn't realize that you had already suggested the Iazyges.  I remember reading somewhere, long ago, something to do with the Vandals and Alans.  When they first joined together they were identified seperately.  Later the Alans were considered just another Germanic people so complete was their assimilation. 
----- Original Message -----
From: Piotr Gasiorowski
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:29 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: The last European Iranians

The Sarmatian Yas (better known as Iazyges) settled on the Hungarian Plain (between the Danube and the Tisa), in Vojvodina and in the Romanian Banat. They played an important role during the Marcomannian wars as allies of the Quadi and the Marcomanni. Groups of Iazyges and Roxolani probably accompanied the Vandals and other motley confederacies of predominantly Germanic tribes as they migrated to the west, but I suppose those "Iranians" were soon absorbed into the Germanic majority. The arrival of the Huns in the 4th century marks the end of Yas domination in the Alföld, but they apparently survived there and retained their language until the 15th century (their Hungarian name was "Jasz"). A document discovered in 1957 and dated 1422 contains a list of Yas words and phrases with Latin translations and (despite the corrupt spelling) leaves little doubt that their language was still recognisably related to Ossetic, e.g. "daban horz" (Ossetic dae bon horz) 'good day' and -- guess what -- "dan" glossed "aqua" (Ossetic don).
 
Julius Nemeth, 1959. Eine Wörterliste der Jassen, der Ungarlaendischen Alanen. In: Abhandlungen der Deutschen Akademie der Wissenschaften zu Berlin 4. (which, alas, I haven't got and can't access now to provide more examples).
 
At any rate, there must have been *some* Iranian-speakers in Hungary and possibly in western Romania in the tenth century. I don't know what loanwords Mirel has in mind, but I wouldn't be surprised to see some.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:17 PM
Subject: Subject: Re: Odp: [tied] Romanian and Slavic

--- In cybalist@......, "Mirel 'Turambar' Palada" <mpalada@......> wrote:

> Scythian / Indo-Iranian
> (5-10th century)

The Scyths were forced out of the Pontic steppe by the Sarmatians in II c. BC. As for Indo-Iranians in general, they had been nearly completely eliminated  by the Hunns and the Bulgars by the V c. AD. Did you mean not absorbed wawes of Pontic East Iranians (or, more generally, Indo-Iranians) formed sorta adstratum on the territory of today's Romania? If so, why up to X c.?

It would be very interesting to acquaint oneself with some of these loans.

Sergei