Re: [tied] Re: etruscan

From: Christopher Gwinn
Message: 5479
Date: 2001-01-13

> As for Cymry, the Brythonic etymology (= "compatriots, fellow countrymen")
is beyond reproach.

That is true (Ultimately from *Kom-Merg-oi). Another point that many don't
realize is that Cymry is a late formation (discussed by Eric Hamp in Etudes
Celtiques XIX and Rachel Bromwich in Armes Prydain) - it is not attested
until the full Dark Ages (the oldest Welsh poetry never mentions the name),
which has led many Celticists to now regard it as the same sort of Dark Age
shift in national identity which also led to the Irish adopting a new ethnic
name, Goedel. In other words, the usage of "Compatriots" was the direct
result of the Germanic invasions in Britain, forcing the Britons to find a
new name to distinguish themselves and connote commonality amongst
themselves as opposed to the "new Britons" Further weight is added when it
is realized that if Cymry was genuinely ancient, we should expect the modern
form to be *Cyfry instead (following the rule that *kom- becomes ko-
before -m-).

> Do you suggest that the North European Cimbri of the 2nd c. BC (be they
Celtic or Germanic) have something to > to with the Pontic Kimmerioi of the
8th c. BC? What precisely? And what makes you think so, if it isn't only the
> lure of the names?

Cimbri may be a genuine Celtic name - note the Irish verb cimb "to take."

-Chris Gwinn