Re: [tied] Qualitative ablaut - case as closed as a black hole is b

I have already declared myself to be of the opposite persuasion. I don't think the case for three distinctive dorsal articulations is strong enough, though I often use the transcription *k^ etc. myself in deference to established practice. I will provide a detailed statement of my position soon; here let me just say that "satemisation" was unlike the Law of Palatals or other well-known cases of velar palatalisation before front vowels -- here I completely agree with Miguel.

Piotr

----- Original Message -----

From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:37 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Qualitative ablaut - case as closed as a black hole is black

>>*g^ was most certainly not caused by *e. I, and many others with me, >>consider it to be a separate PIE phoneme. > >Who exactly?

To name a few, Brugmann, Beekes (with reservations), Gamqrelidze and Ivanov, Pedersen, Rasmussen, Illich-Svitych, Watkins. An interesting argument from G & I: as is known, PIE does not allow roots of the shape TET, DHEDH, PEP, BHEBH etc. But we do find such roots as *kek^ (weasel) and *k^ekw (shit). Calvert Watkins (in Ramat & Ramat) mentions the Luwian evidence I thought I didn't have: "Compare Luv. za-/zi- "this" < *k^o-/*k^i- (Lith. s^ìs, Arm. -s), zi:yar(i) "lies" < *k^ej-or- (Ved. s'áye < *k^ej-oj-); kis^a(i)- "comb" < *kes- (OCS c^eso~), kars^- "cut" (Gk. a-kerse-kóme:s "with unshorn locks"); kui- "who" < *kwi- (Lat. quis), -kuwa < *-kwe (Lat. -que). See Melchert (1987)." [i.e. *k -> k, *k^ -> z, *kw -> kw].