(no subject)

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 4874
Date: 2000-11-26

Actually the forms you quote (except for *oid-/*id-) fit much better into the known patterns if one DOESN'T reconstruct them with *h3-.
 
First, Pokorny's reconstructions are anti-laryngealist. One consequence of that is that Pokorny reconstructs things like "diphthongs" *@i and *@u, which make no sense in the laryngeal theory (a prevocalic laryngeal cannot be vocalised). In laryngealist terms, forms like *aus- should be reconstructed with a full vowel, and the colour "a" in Latin and/or Greek points to *h2-.
 
The "ear" root is thus reconstructed as *h2aus- (= e-grade /h2eus-/), with the corresponding o-grade presumably surviving in Greek (it may reflect the original root formation *h2ous- as opposed to derivatives like the popular es-neuter *h2aus-es- or Greek *h2aus-nt-).
 
Again, the "bird" word gives Latin avis, which points to *h2awi- (an archaic Gen. form is visible in Sanskrit ves. = h2weis). Greek aietos < *awi-eto- provides more evidence for *h2- rather than *h3-. The "egg" word (usually reconstructed as *o:wiom/*o:(u)jom) may be related , but the details are not clear; some etymologists opt for a vrddhied derivative, others for a compound. In any event a form that is not fully understood cannot be used as evidence.
 
The "mouth" word poses special problems. My private (but published) opinion is that the word is an old athematic neuter *(h1)o:s, *(h1)es-ós, reanalysed as an es-stem: *o:s > *ó-es or *ó-os, hence the innovated oblique forms *(o)-és-os and (younger) ó-es-os > *o:sos. This explains both the non-Anatolian forms and the Hittite development (as analysed by Szemerényi 1978: ais, issas < uncontracted *o-es, *(o-)es-os). The absence of a laryngeal reflex in Hittite points to *h1- (which may also mean that there was no initial consonant at all in PIE). The Slavic form (if related!) may have been affected by the "ear" word.
 
[I'll answer tomorrow regarding Latin o:di: and "Attic" redupliaction -- it's getting late.]
 
Piotr
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: petegray
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2000 8:27 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] How many laryngeals?

 
(c) Cases which show ablaut  o: ~ [o ~] @ with no evidence of any forms in e
grade.  One or two might be mere coincidence - the e-grade happens not to be
found - but are there too many for this to be believeable?   Examples
include:
   Pokorny p774 *oid / id  swell
   Pokorny p784 o:us/@us  mouth
   Pokorny p785 o:us/@us/us  ear
   Pokorny p783 o:iom/@iom avian
and others.
   o< h3 allows us to retain well-known patterns of ablaut with full grade,
whereas o < oh2 produces unusual patterns.