Re: [tied] Re: From Scythia to Camelot

From: Christopher Gwinn
Message: 4285
Date: 2000-10-12

> There was a regiment of Sarmatian cataphracts stationed in Britain in
> the 3rd century AD. Some have suggested that the story of Excalibur
> ultimately derives from a Sarmatian source. They seem to have
> revered a sword carved on a stone - and the sword in the stone myth
> is an early part of the developing Arthurian lore.

Actually the Scythians (as reported by Herodotus and Ammianus) worshipped an
iron sword which was stuck into the earth, or into a platform made of a heap
of wood. Thety considered the sword to be their ward god (interestingly
enough, there is a Vodoo war god who is also represented by a sword and is
worshipped while stuck into the earth). OF course, a sword being stuck into
the earth and worshipped as a war god is a far cry from a sword being placed
in a stone (or anvil) which needed to be removed as a test of kingship - I
think they are coincidentally similar, but have different origins and
meanings (not to mention that the sword in the stone isn't even mentioned in
Arthurian myths until the 13th century - from the French romance "Merlin"
written by Swiss poet/knight Robert de Boron, no less!).

Malcor and Littleton also believe that Uther Pendragon's name comes from a
common "Steppe" word Pan meaning "leader" (ignoring that it makes perfect
sense in Welsh as Penn "chief"/"head" and need not be a borrowing at all -
dragon is, of course, Latin - but developed in Welsh with the secondary
meaning of "warrior"). They add that Lancelot means "The Alan of Lot" (Lot
being a French river - it is quite a ridiculous etymology - *Alanz-Lot !).
They think that the Holy Grail comes from the Ossetic Nartamongae - a
magical goblet that the Ossetic Narts possess, and that Merlin went under a
sex change and was originally a female divine water figure amongst the
Narts. They see Excalibur having been tossed into the lake (also not
mentioned until the 14th century or so in a non-Welsh source) as being
borrowed from the Ossetic myth where Batraz tosses his sword into the sea as
he is dying.
The biggest problem with Malcor and Littleton's methods (next to the lack of
understanding concerning Celtic matters) is that they have no way of
proving whatsoever the myths that were common amongst those Sarmatians who
entered Britain of the Alans who entered France. No myths have been directly
connected to them - it is only by inferrence with Herodotus and the Ossets
that they reconstruct possible common Scythian mythology - ignoring the fact
completely that Scythians had come into contact with eastern Celts along the
Danube quite early on (even creating a mixed population called
Celto-Scythians ) and could have just as easily borrowed motifs from the
Celts.

> Of course there were many elements involved here. A Lucius Artorius
> was stationed in Briatin and "Arth" is seen as linked to the word for
> Bear in a number of IE tongues. Gildas refers to one of the
> magistrates that he condemns as having been "charioteer to the Bear",
> peraps an early reference to an actual leader of the Britains after
> Aurelius Ambrosius. In any case Arthur seems to have been a magnet
> for many mythic elements which have been woven together.

There is quite a controversy surrounding the origin of Arthur's name. Most
maintain that it is a development out of the Roman gens name Artorius (which
is believed to be of obscure origin, but may be Greek according to some).
Others (including myself) feel that it is a native Brythonic name (or
Goidelic, imported into Brythonic), having developed out of Art-os "bear" or
Art-u-s "stone."

I believe that the only other language which presents a root Art- perhaps
meaning "bear" is the Greek (or Anatolian?) dialect which gave us Artemis.

-C. Gwinn