Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 4251
Date: 2000-10-12

According to Paul Benedict (Austro-Thai Language and Culture), the Austro-Thai (AT) root for "copper, brass" was *LUYANG (proto-Indonesian luyang, proto-Thai doong) . The AT root for "iron" was *(m)BAXLIAQ (Indonesian bat'i "iron", proto-Thai hlek, hleek, proto-Miao-Yao *hia'=hlia). So, the root for "iron" remember those roots for "copper"in Greek and Tibeto-Burman.
 
The influence of Austro-Thai people in Chinese culture is greatly demonstrated now. Paul Benedict shows in his book that almost all Chinese calendar animal names came from Austro-Thai. It's also possible that the Chinese dragons were a "mythologized" derivation of South Asian crocodiles.
 
What were the Dravidic and Sanskrit names for "copper" and "bronze"?
Were the Sumerians an Austronesian or Austric people? I think there'll be many surprises in the future... 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Odegard
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale

The Greek bronze word is Xalkos. This is often compared to Tibeto-Burman *qhleks (yeah, proto-Tibeto-Burman!). Both are suggested to be loans from a third language, or more likely, loans mediated by separate intermediate languages.
 
There is some interesting archaeological data on the Ban Chiang site in northeast Thailand (along the Mekong). Bronze working is found, apparently co-eval with the earliest found in Mesopotamia. There is questionable evidence the Ban Chiang site was doing bronze a full millennium before this. The idea that knowledge of bronze came from Southeast Asia is indeed an interesting one. I suspect some have looked for cognates to Xalkos and *qhleks in the Austronesian or Austro-Asian language families.
 
Mark.
 
There is no demonstrably PIE word for iron (wrought or meteoritic), let alone steel, though it's possible that the PIE neuter *xajes- could mean 'iron, any metal' in addition to 'copper'. At any rate the Indo-Iranian reflexes (Skt. ayas-) developed the meaning 'iron', cf. also Germanic *ais-o:n- = English ore.
 
Germanic *i:sa(r)na- (Eisen, iron), most likely borrowed from Celtic (*eisarno-), may be a derivative of *isxro- 'strong, powerful' rather than of *xajes-.
 
Greek has si:de:ros/-on is no doubt a loanword, perhaps somehow related to Latin si:dus, -eris 'constellation, star(s)' (magnetite = star-stone??).
 
Baltic and Slavic have related terms: Lithuanian gel(e)z^is, OPrussian gelso, Slavic z^elEzo < B-Sl *gele(:)Zo-. I'm not sure how to analyse them (*gWelh-eg-??).
 
Latin ferrum is sometimes connected with the verb root *dHers- 'dare, be bold, violate' (English dare, durst, Sanskrit dharSa-).
 
Hittite hapalkija- is non-IE. Like Hurrite hapalkinu it was borrowed from Hattic hapalki 'iron'.