Re: [tied] Re: Euxine Event.; DOGS

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 4139
Date: 2000-10-04

The problem in your analysis is that you invert the chronological order of
the "groups". The group I is the newest, and IV is the oldest, according to
the article.
I think the study must be expanded to include many more breeds. Maybe each
breed of dog have so many "crossbreeding"in their origin that any breed can
be so many haplotypes. Maybe all haplotypes are very old and can be present
in almost all breeds.

Xolotzcuintl have haplotypes
D3 - shared with Border Terrier, Chow, Elkhound, English Setter, Fox
Terrier, Siberian Husky, Iceland Dog, Japanese Spitz, Whippet, Springer
Spaniel, Rottweiler, Poodle, Papillon
D6 - shared with Rumanian and Russian wolves, German Shepherd, Golden
Retriever, Basset, Bulldog, Belgian Groenendael, Afghanhound, Maremman,
Otterhound, Toy Poodle, Irish Water Spaniel and Tibetan Spaniel
D21 - only Xolotz
D26 - shared with Pug, Shar Pei and Ridgeback. (This can support an Asian
origin: pug and sharpei are Chinese and some books state that Rhodesian
Ridgeback was result of breeding between South African dogs and Phu-Quoc
Dog, brought by Englishmen from Thailand.

Joao SL
----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:40 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Euxine Event.; DOGS

> Thanks Joao for giving the reference that I was referring to.
> > I've ever think how the understanding about dogs races evolution
> would be so useful to understand IE migration. What kinds of dogs the
> IE people carried with them? The wolfish shepherd-dogs? The molossoid
> mastiffs? The bracoid bloodhound-like races? The fox-like spitz?
> >
> > A good article about dog genetic evolution is at SCIENCE vol 276 13-
> Vilà,
> C., et alii)
> > The study analyzed the haplotypes of circa 20 races of dogs and 20
> wolves from different places and divided them in 4 groups:
> > I
> > the main group, including only dogs
> > II
> > derived from Greek and Italian wolves, this one include only the
> haplotype D8 (present in Sandinavian Elghund and Jämthund)
> > III
> > derived from Arabian wolves, include the haplotypes D7 (present in
> Siberian Husky, Alaskan Malamute, Giant Schnauzer, Jamthund, Airedale
> Terrier, West Highland White Terrier and German Shepherd), D19
> (present in German Shepherd) and D21 (present in Mexican hairless dog)
> > IV
> > derived from Greek, Russian and Romanian wolves, this include the
> haplotypes D10 (present in Wire-haired Dachshund and Flat-Coated
> Retriever), D24 (present in Golden Retriever) and D6/W6 (present in
> Romanian and Russian wolves, and in Mexican hairless, German
> Shepherd, Golden Retriever, Basset, Bulldog, Belgian Groenendael,
> Afghanhound, Maremman, Otterhound, Toy Poodle, Irish Water Spaniel
> and Tibetan Spaniel)
> Tieing this evidence together via the archaeology and the spread that
> I mentioned.
> Type 1: Probably derived from the Zarzian culture, which, on current
> evidence is the earliest to show domestication of dogs.
> Type 2: Seems to have derived when type 1 dogs were carried by
> mesolithic hunters northward and westward. Backcrossings to wolves
> led the Greco-Italian wolf genes into the original dogs.
> Type 3: again began in the Middle East. The D7 and D21 Haplotypes
> are also linked to many of the central asian breeds. It seems that
> these came Westward during the Scythian/Sarmatian times as
> their "dogs of war".
> Type 4: again by backcrossing to wolves in the Northern Balkan
> areas. It possibly occurred with the spread of LBK Cultures. Piotr
> you would be interested here,
> Joao continued
> > It's important to note that any race can have many different
> haplotypes. The split in 4 groups may point to four different
> domestications. A strong mystery to me is the origin of Aztecan races
> like Chihuahua and Hairless dog (Xolotzcuintl): did they come from
> North American wolves? From China? Egypt? Atlantis?
> The Chihuahua and Mexican Hairless I believed were derived from Type
> 3, but I don't know of any papers giving gene sequencing and genetic
> distance in these cases, so I am going by the seat of my pants here.
> Regards
> John