Re: [tied] Plural of nouns

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 4095
Date: 2000-10-01

I'm not an expert, but let's try:
1) Italian plural -i came from original nominative Latin plural -i. In
French, Spanish and Portuguese, the plural -s came from accusative Latin
plural. Ex: lupus "wolf" - Nominative sg. lupus pl. lupi (Italian lupo,
lupi) - Accusative sg lupum, pl. lupo:s (Portugueses lobo, lobos)
2) According to Szemerenyi, PIE o-stems declination:
Nominative sg: -os (neuter -om) pl: -o:s (neuter -a)
Vocative sg: -e (neuter -om) pl: -o:s (neuter -a)
Acusative sg: -om pl: -o:ns (neuter -a)
Genitive sg: -esyo/-osyo pl: -o:m
Ablative sg: -o:d pl: -bh(y)os, -mos
Dative sg; -o:i pl: -bh(y)os, -mos
Locative sg: -e:i/-o:i pl: -oisu
Instrumental sg; -e:/-o: pl: -o:is

Joao SL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruno Oliveira Maroneze <maro@...>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2000 12:51 PM
Subject: [tied] Plural of nouns

> Hello all,
> I am doing an academical research about the plural of nouns in romance
> languages. I want to ask you if you could give me some references about
> morphemes for number in PIE and Latin, particularly on the following
> questions:
> 1) The morpheme for number is always cumulative with the morphemes for
> case and gender? For example, in Latin, the desinence for ablative
> plural is -is; if we compare to the desinence for accusative feminine
> plural (-as), we might think the -s is for plural, the -i- is for
> feminine/ablative, and the -a- is for feminine/accusative. But this
> conclusion is wrong, as we can see by lots of other evidence. I wish to
> know if PIE was like this or not, and if someone has analysed the noun
> morphemes of Latin in some other way.
> 2) In French, the plural is marked by an -s, but only in writing; only the
> article distinguishes between "le théâtre" and "les théâtres". In spoken
> portuguese, sometimes we pronounce "os teatro" instead of "os tratros".
> Does thins phenomenon occur in other romance languages, for example
> "i teatro" instead of "i teatri", or roumanian "trei teatru" instead of
> "trei teatre"?
> Bye,
> Bruno