Re: [tied] Danaan as ethnonym.

From: Dennis Poulter
Message: 3388
Date: 2000-08-25

I agree with you, Mark, to the point that Danaan is an older name for the Greeks than Achaian. However, I think it's impossible to say whether Danaan was the Greeks' own name for themselves before their entry into Greece. Firstly, we know nothing about the coming of the Greeks. If there were several waves, it's seems unlikely that they would all be called Danaans. Secondly, within Greece, Danaan seems to have been restricted to the Argives. I don't think the Thebans were called Danaan, and I don't think the later Athenians considered themselves Danaan. It is also interesting that Danaans were never associated with Crete, despite the Mycenean takeover ca.1470BCE. Of course, as is usual, outsiders such as the Levantines or Egyptians lumped them all together as Tanayu/Dnn.
The association of /dnnym/ with Adana is debatable. The Adanawa were a Luwian speaking people,  and the Phoenician /dnnym/ mentioned in an inscription in association with Adana would seem to refer post-Sea People Greeks, especially in view of their association within the same inscription with a certain /mps/ - Mopsos?
In general, given the later tribal organisation of the Celts, Germans etc., I think it's unlikely that the IE's would have had such a concept of unity amongst themselves as to give themselves an all encompassing name. These kind of generic names seem to be generally given by outsiders.
Briefly, I remember in an earlier discussion it was said that the Danann of Tuatha De Danann was a late addition, and that they were originally called just Tuatha De - the People of the Goddess.
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Odegard
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August, 2000 10:32 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Danaan as ethnonym.

I am rather ignorant about all things Indo-Iranian, and only slightly less informed about all things Celtic.
In his review of Sakellariou's work, Katona says this:
--start quotes--
Vedic and Danaan mythologies have developed in opposite directions: in the former we find elements impeding benefits of waters, which is not the case of the second. He then corrects and opinion of a passage of the Zend-Avesta: It is not the Danu who were defeated by the protector genii of the Iranians but the Iranian warriors implore the genii to help them against the Danu. These Avestic Danu, together with the Danaans, and The Dynnym of Adana in Kilikia appear to represent three related branches of an Indo-European population, and at the same time the Danu are proven also to have been a historic people. [p. 81]
The Proto-Greeks outside Greece are represented by a, the Avestan Danavo- (they could have detached at an early date from the main body), b, the Danaans. The latter can be traced from Troad to Kilikia in numerous regions of Asia minor with a few 'Danaan facts" in Armenia as well as elsewhere. They do could have detached from the main body or have passed the Caucasus. [p. 85]
--end quotes--
So. Danaan is indeed an ancient IE ethnonym, one that stands at the head of Greek as a self-applied term for those people who first spoke Greek, as well as a term for 'other folk' used in Indo-Iranian, and what seems certainly also for the heroic race of the Tuatha De Danaan. But I could be wrong. This is just speculation here. It's almost as if we have the self-applied ethnonym for 'Western IE folk'.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] Danaan as ethnonym.

And the Indian Danava?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 5:11 PM
Subject: [tied] Danaan as ethnonym.

Following up my earlier post, the Tuatha De Danaan do come to mind here. The teuto-word, plus some reflex of the da-/dan- root. I've not studied Celtic mythology much, but the Tuatha De Danaan seem to have been mythical from the start, stories from earlier times on the continent, preserved and retold in Ireland, with the places shifted largely to Ireland.
Is it fair to say 'Danaan' should be seen as a fundamental IE ethnonym, at the level of say 'Aryan', words ancient IE peoples used to describe themselves?