Re: [tied] Danaans [was Poseidon]

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 3375
Date: 2000-08-23

[UTF-8 encoded, like Mark's original message]
 
Walde & Pokorny ignore laryngeals as a principle. If the Don's name belongs here at all (<speculation> Tanais may be a "Cimmerian" name with the Thracian analogue of Grimm's Law; in SE Poland we also have Tanew < *ta:nu:, which might in turn be Gothic-influenced, as the river runs close to a very early settlement area of the Goths </speculation>), the short vowel might be the reflex of a vocalised laryngeal (*da:-/*d@- in Brugmannian terms), but I think a more convincing explanation is possible. The reduced vowel *U which occurs in some Slavic river-names (*dUnEprU 'Dnieper', *dUnEstrU 'Dniester') is the reflex of unstressed Iranian *a (also shortened *a:) in a pretonic syllable. A similar substitution is visible in the numeral '100', Slavic *sUtó < Iranian *satá- (the regular Slavic reflex of the IE word would be **sInto or **sIntU) and in the verb *xUt-je-/*xot-je-'want' (most likely from Iranian *xat-yá- < *snt-jé-, cf. Polish chęć 'willingness' < *xant-i- < *sont-i-). The variation *U/*o in the verb is unmotivated phonologically; *don-/*dUn- may be a similar case of an unstressed back vowel being replaced by dialectal Slavic equivalents.
 
The "*o/*u ablaut" can't be taken seriously. Bringing in an isolated Latvian word that doesn't quite fit semantically is a shot in the dark. In etymologically secure cases like nox/nuks u is characteristically Greek and ALWAYS occurs next to a reconstructed labialised velar stop or *w (cf. such celebrated items as hudo:r, gune:, kuklos). The vowel quality must be due to the colouring effect of the "dark" consonant (labialised stops lose their labial component and have plain velar reflexes in such cases!) and definitely has nothing to do with IE alternations. Professor Schmid should be aware of that, as the problem has often been mentioned in the literature.
 
Greek dan-, on the other hand, is easily relatable to da:n- via the normal ablaut pattern {dex+n} : {dx+n}, though any analyst who wants to connect Da:nuvius and the Danaoi should at least risk a prediction specifying the forms in which the nil grade has a right to occur. Also the second -a- in Danaoi remains difficult to explain even if we admit *d(a)x-n-o- as a variant of *dax-n-(e)u- (like, say, Germanic *xurna- < *kr-n-o- 'horn' vs. Latin cornu:) or equate the Danaoi with Ramesses III's dnjn ("Denyen"/"Danuna", one of the Sea Peoples; this immediately brings to mind the story of Danaus and Aegyptos). We would probably need something like *dx-n-ax-(j-) as well -- which means a constellation of hypothetical forms with very little tangible attestation. These connections are extremely tempting, but we're on slippery ground here. Suspecti sunt Danai et dona ferentes.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Odegard
To: cybalist@egroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:10 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Danaans [was Poseidon]

Mark writes:

The dictionary of Walde-Pokorney .. has only the root *dā- and *dē- without explaining either the quantity or the o-vocalism of "Don" (or the quantity of its o-vocalism). But since there is an initial dā-na for Sanskrit, isn't it possible that the root had a final laryngeal originally? The Greek word δημός  ('fat', 'fodder', 'nourishment for beasts') could possibly be attached to "-dan ". Then, being analyzed further as *dā-m-, it would remind of *dā-n-. Nevertheless, I think that the most plausible explanation is given by W.P. Schmid. He interprets the difference in quantity between dā-nu and Δαναοι  with quantitative ablaut relations, *danos being the outcome of the zero grade (Schwundstufe). He also brings the forms with -o- with those with -u- together, dan/dun- as in Latvian danava, dunava /'pool, puddle'/. The vowel gradation has then several parallels, e.g., nox - νύξ , also calix - κύλιξ, Lithuanian nagas /'nail'/ - óνυξ, etc. It is clear, he writes, that the Δαναοι must have had their homeland in the region which had the zero grade form dan-, not that of dā-nu.