Re: [tied]

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 3310
Date: 2000-08-20

----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [tied] Dumezil, Trito and Athena: mystery
solved the gLeN way

I don't think there's much ground for assuming any secondary
associations. Everything is perfectly straightforward here.
The Germanic *wo:d- word family matches Celtic *wa:t- both
formally and semantically, and in both groups magic and
poetry are involved (e.g. ON o:thr 'song, poetry', Welsh
gwawd 'carmen' < *wa:t-o-s). I mean "madness" in the sense
'furor poeticus' or 'rage', not 'foolishness'. Woden was the
god of wisdom, but also of runes, poetry, magic,
incantations, and of war. His wisdom was a little like that
of a shaman or a visionary (see John's opinion on the origin
of Odin). And if you really don't know what Odin/Woden had
to do with madness as 'fury, ferocity', read something about
the Norsemen warriors who went berserk.

Yes, there is an IE root like that, *wedH- 'lead, carry
away'. It seems to have cognates meaning 'bride, wife' in
some branches, and *wedH-t- might, at least from the formal
point of view, underly Vesta and Hestia (not that I insist);
I'm not aware of *xadH-.


> Piotr:
> > Let's be serious: Odin cannot be *XedHnos for the very
good reason >that
> >he is the same god as Wotan and Woden: *wo:d-an-a-
contains the >same
> >element that we find in archaic wood 'mad, possessed' =
OHG wuot, >Gothic
> >wo:ths (cf. Modern German wtend, Wut 'wrath'), and also
in >Latin va:te:s,
> >OIrish faith 'prophet, seer' < *waxt-, with further
>Germanic, Celtic and
> >Indic cognates that have to do with madness, >poetry and
> Alright, interesting. But let's _truely_ be serious here
if we are to take
> your analysis to heart...
> 1. Is it not possible that *wo:d- was secondarily
associated with
> Odin-Wotan by way of phonetic similarity?
> 2. What exactly does "madness" and Odin-Wotan have to do
with each
> other?
> 3. If Odin-Wotan were "wise", why would he be "mad"? And
if one can
> justify this association, does this association exist
> both forms of this same god?
> 4. Finally, to add some flavour to the discussion, is
there any
> root in IE of the form *xedh- or something similar and
what is its
> meaning? ...Perhaps *xWedh-?
> :) (<-- an enigmatic Mona Lisa smile)
> When I get a chance I'll return a rebuttal regarding
Steppe numbers,
> possibly tomorrow.
> - gLeN
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