Re: [tied] Re: Athenaia & Trita

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 3127
Date: 2000-08-15

One important point: I'm trying to not confuse the origin of a god with the
origin of a god's name. Apollon was another super-complex deity. My point of
view is that one of his "components" was clearly IE: The "triangle"
Apollon-Artemis-Leto are similar to Vedic Surya-Usas-Ratri.( Sansk. Rátri,
Greek Létó < *Lá- "hide"?), that is, Sun-Dawn-Night.
This is not means that Artemis, Leto and Apollon couldn't have some
"Pelasgian" substratum.
Other IE component in Apollon is the furious Avenger God, master of Medicine
and Pestilence. It's like Indian Rudra, Norse Vali and maybe Irish
Diancecht. Pay attention to these couples: Rudra(Shiva) / Vishnu; Vidarr /
Vali.

ps: By Pelasgian I just mean "pre-Greek", I know it's an arbitrary name.

Joao SL
Rio de Janeiro
----- Original Message -----
From: John Croft <jdcroft@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 8:03 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Athenaia & Trita


> Hi Joao
>
> >From one John to another
>
> > The link between At-Hana and Hannahanna is very plausible, although
> > I'm notsure for Anahita or Anath, but it's also possible. The
> > problem with Greek IE gods is that Greeks invaded Greece through
> > many "waves", and I think thesyncretism was made by different ways
> > in differente Greek regions.Some of the etymologies Martin Bernal
> > suggested (Black Athena) are very fascinating, like APHRODITE from
> > Pr-Wadjet, and Egyptian and Phoenician links are also a good clue
> > for seeking Greek myths' origins. I think Athena's warrior role
> > beside Zeus was a reflex of Anath beside Baal. What I'm trying to
> > say is that IE, Egyptian and Semitic influences were "pasted" to a
> > Pelasgian substratum. So, my ideas do not disagree with Athana
> > Cretan Goddess. And about PALLAS (Pallad-)? What the origin of this
> > name?
>
> A couple of things here. It is interesting that Aphrodite is
> described as a Cyprian Goddess, and she is post Cretian (according to
> Yves Bonnefoy). Thus we have a Cyprian origin coming into the Aegean
> with the arrival of the Phoneicians (post 1,000 BCE). Aphrodite and
> Attis have clear associations with Inanna/Ishtar/Astarte and
> Dammuzi/Tammuz/Adonis, and so we can see a clear Phoenician link
> there. With Anath and Baal, I think we should be careful about a one
> way causation. This was a husband-wife, brother-sister linkage.
> There was no association of that between Zeus and Athena in classical
> times, when Athena as warrior beside Zeus was most developed. There
> may have been a Goddess-Consort role between Potiniya Athana and Zeus
> there, but then Ugarit was the first port of call for Cretian and
> Mycenaeans in the Middle East. There, later Phoenician influences
> may
> have been originally Aegean. Certainly the Sea Peoples were settled
> widely along this coast in the post-Mycenean volkerwunderungen, and
> Phoenician dynasts derived their genealogies from Mopsus of Colophon,
> a minor Greek hero. There is significant evidence that Aegean mythos
> entered later Jewish belief via the Philistines (David was a
> Philistine mercenary in their pay, and the first High Priests in
> Jerusalem were Philistines from Gerar. The stories of "wandering in
> the wilderness", the "promised land" and the land of "milk and honey"
> (Honey was a Cretian export - Candia in Crete is the origin of our
> word for candy), and the Hebrew derivation of Philistines from
> Caphtor
> (Keftiu=Pillar) is all very suggestive.
>
> > She was a different goddess? Or just another epithetus? Linked with
> > Giant and Titan Pallas (Pallanto-)?
>
> You might like to have a look at the archive of our posts Joao. We
> did a search in several classical dictionaries under the name Pallas
> some time ago. It revealed some interesting connections, including
> our own palace, and the Pelasgoi.
>
> > ABout Black Athena: Bernal suggested etymology khprr (sun-scarab
> > Khepri) for Apollon, but I think KhPRR could be linked to titan
> > HYPERION (The Sun-Titan of non-Hesiodic 14 Titans, and father of
> Sun
> > in Hesiodic Titans)
>
> Interesting. I tend to agree with you. Apollo is usually seen as
> Lycian in origin. Certainly his name is shared with the Tyrrenoi
> (many posts on this list on this subject).
>
> Regards
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>