Re: [tied] Re: kinship systems

ibi mei maiores sunt siti, pater, avos, proavos, abavos

'there is where my ancestors lie--father, grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great grandfather'.

--Plautus, Miles Gloriosus, 373, quoted in EIEC, 'Grandfather'.

 

For reasons that can only be wholly English, my mind wants to say that the Latin should be propater, antepropater, preantepropater, pre-preantepropator ...

 

Mark.

----- Original Message -----

From: Marc Verhaegen

To: cybalist@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 12:40 AM

Subject: Re: [tied] Re: kinship systems

OK, thanks! As always, very informative!   --Marc

It was indeed ava in later Latin. But it's a good point: the derivation is not so straightforward as that of lupa or equa (after all, a grandmother is not simply a female grandfather). Avia is of adjectival origin (< 'belonging to a grandfather'), like patria from pater (another such pair is patri:tus 'inherited from one's father' and avi:tus 'ancestral'). However, the most important point is this: both avus and av(i)a refer indiscriminately to paternal and maternal grandparents.

 

Piotr

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Piotr: Latin has avia 'grandmother', but that's a straightforward derivation from avus 'grandfather'.

 

Straigthforward: wouldn't that be ava?    --Marc