Re: Reindeer.

Mark Just a quickie. Regarding reindeer I checked the page you mentioned. Like you

> I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the National Park Service's

statement,

> but for the sake of argument will take it at face value. This is the > only reputable site that gives a date for the domestication of

reindeer. The evidence I have is that reindeer domestication occurred in the area west of Lake Baikal about 250 BCE. Although Altaic Hsuing-nu were north of China then, the Samoyeds neighbours to the south were Iranian Sakae. By 400 CE reindeer herding had crossed the Urals, and by 600 AD had expanded throughout the Saami lands in Scandinavia. This evidence is fairly old, and may only be the last possible date for the spread (they keep finding earlier dates for such things!)

> This part of the world was occupied by the Afanasevo culture,

3500-2500

> BCE, and is imputed by many to be proto-Tocharian. The Afanasevo > culture, however, contains remains of cattle, ovicaprids, and horse

-- all of

> which do not suggest a reindeer-domesticating culture to me.

There is indirect Iranian evidence of reindeer domestication in that amongst the Altai Iranians, they consructed complex reindeer gorns made of leather which they attached to their horses.

> In any event, I would not look for reindeer in northwestern Europe

until well

> after the breakup of PIE. I do wonder if Uralic-speakers can be

associated > with their domestication; such a question is of course unanswerable.

> Considering the poverty of my resources to investigate the question, > my conclusions are only speculative. I suspect most of the really good > data is buried in Finno-Scandic publications.

Or maybe Magyar? John