Re: The Wends and the Venedi

Breton Gwened may come from Ueneti, but Welsh Gwynedd must come from *Uened-o(-t-a) or *Ueneii-o(-t-a) and not from Ueneti (-dd- is only produced by Common Celtic -d- or by -ii-o/a. Common Celtic -t- produces -d- in Welsh).

----- Original Message -----

From: John Croft

To: cybalist@eGroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 7:45 PM

Subject: [cybalist] Re: The Wends and the Venedi

Guillaume wrote

> Although there was indeed a name such as veneti before the breton
> migration in Brittany, I thinnk it will be evident to anybody that the
> modern breton word Gwened (ar Bro Gwened, the county of Vannes, that
> sits in the very place where Caesar says the veneti were), is related
> to welsh Gwynedd. So what relation is there between Gwened and Veneti
> (it is also obvious that there is one) ? Is there a brythonic (celtic
> ?) etymology for Gwynedd / Gwened ?

Gwynedd was the name given to the land of the Decangi after being
resettled by the Goddodin (a tribe of Celts from Lothian in Scotland,
to which area they gave their name).  The Goddodin were previously the
Votadini of the pre-Roman celts.  The settlement was to limit the
depredations of the Scotts from Lughain (Leinster) who had settled the
Lleyn peninsula (to which they had given it their name).  I understood
Gwynedd took its name because the leaders of the Goddodin/Votadini who
led the settlement of Gwynedd was Cunedda and his sons. Cunedda evolved
into the modern Scottish name Kenneth.

Its application to Britanny, however, is an odd one, because most of
the Bretons came from Southern England and Wales, not Northern Wales
(Gwynedd).  Given the Brythonic shift in language from V to G in post
Roman times (eg. Votadini - Goddodin, Vortigern - Guortighern etc),
your etymological connection between Veneti to Gwynedd in Britanny may
be a valid one.

John

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