Re: Carniola et al.

At 06:44 2000-01-22 -0800, you wrote:

> Maximilian Hartmuth writes:
>
>> for the people in the region not of Germanic origin. Sorry if this has
>>gotten too long, and wasn`t really on a main-topic of discussion.
>
>This is not entirely off-topic. Getting familiar with European geography,
>and with the various ethno-linguistic groups is a part of IE studies. At
>least, its more on-topic than we've been lately. We have not really
>discussed the Sorbians of Germany, and am interested in how they get called
>'Wenden'. I am fond of these old European geographical names. Carniola,
>Styria, Istria, Carinthia. They bring up all sorts of lush Franz-Joseph-era
>associations, romantically populated by Gypsy barons and merry widows. Of
>late, I'm enamored of Livonia and Ostrobothnia. These geographic place
>names are as exotic and faraway for me as is probably Iowa is for the
>Europeans reading this. As for "Windisch", "Wenden", etc, "Vend", are we
>speaking of Vandals? The kings of Sweden used to style themselves as King
>of the Swedes, Goths and Wends. I'm forget where we put the Vandals, but I
>think they are classed as East Germanic, along with the Ostogoths and
>Visigoths. But I might be wrong. Mark.

"Vend" is an old Germanic term for slavs. The Swedish Kings called
themselselve "svears, göters och venders konung", however despite the fact
that parts of Pomerania (part of the old Vendish area) was Swedish
1648-1814 the use of the title was due to rivalry with Denmark. Sweden and
Denmark/Norway was in Union in the fifteenth century and the Danish Kings
kept calling themselves Kings of Sweden long after this, so to retaliate
Swedish kings took over part of the Danish Kings traditional title as King
of the Vends! By the way this title goes back to the 12-13th century when
the Danes conquered pparts of the North German Coast, including Rügen.

The Slavs had colonized this area back in the 6th-7th centuries when it was
probably partially depopulated since the previous East Germanic inhabitants
(Goths, Vandals etc) had removed themselves. A few Vends apparently even
crossed the Baltic and settlet on the Danish island of Lolland to judge
from a group of place-names there (e. g. Tillitse).

As for Ostrobothnia, this is "Österbotten" in the original Swedish, it
means simply "East Bottom", it is the country east of Bottenviken (the Bay
of Bothnia, literally "Bottom Bay"). Opposite is "Västerbotten" (West
Bottom). The name Norrbotten ("North Bottom") for the area north of
Bottenviken is a much younger name formed by analogy.

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