SV: Neolithic Revolution

Actually there have been some rare cases where substantial houses and
villages, social stratification etc. has developed in non-agricultural
societies. The obvious recent case are the Northwest Coast Indians from
Oregon to Alaska. Another interesting case is the Jomon culture of Japan,
which was actually the first in the world to adopt pottery (during the Late
Glacial c. 12-13,000 BP). One might perhaps also cite the South Island
Maori as an example. In all these cases a highly productive coastal
environment which permits a fairly dense sedentary population seems to be
the crucial factor.

Possibly something similar took place in the Near East where the last
pre-neolithic culture (the Natufian) also had permanent villages, but in
this case it seems that the economic system was based on intensive
gathering of plant foods and hunting of antelopes and small game. Such a
strategy would only have been viable in an unusually productive
environment, and it seems reasonable that an environmental deterioration
(Dryas 3?) could have triggered "neolithization".

However a neolithic economy does by no means inevitably lead to state
formation. Look att the Eastern Highlands of New Guinea, which were and
independent center of "neolithization" and have had a neolithic economy
since quite early in the Holocene (at least 9,000 BP). The population is
quite substantial too, but the political system is still entirely tribal.
It is tempting to see a correlation between this lack of larger political
units and the incredible linguistic diversity, where adjacent villages
often have completely different languages.

Tommy Tyrberg

----------

> Från: Alexander Stolbov <astolbov@...>
> Till: Gerry Reinhart-Waller <waluk@...>
> Kopia: cybalist@egroups.com
> Ämne: [cybalist] Neolithic Revolution
> Datum: den 18 december 1999 13:25
>
> [Gerry]:
> > I'm sorry, Alexander, but I cannot agree with you that only
> > agriculture is a component of the Neolithic Revolution.
>
> Agriculture is not the ONLY component. Otherwise we would better use the

term

> "Agricultural Overturn" rather than "Neolithic Revolution". But the

transition

> to agriculture was the leading factor which correlated with the

appearence of

> other components (pottery, polished stone tools, houses, weaving and

other). It

> is not easy to say whether some of "other components" were direct

consequences

> of
> agriculture, or developed parallelly, or stimulated appearence of

agriculture.

> At least all of them can be found separately (not as a complex ! ) in

some

> Mesolithic cultures (even metallurgy which belonges to the next step of
> development after the Neolithic Revolution).
>
> But I'd like to stress that using
> pottery or building houses don't turn over the whole life of a tribe and

don't

> change the historical fortune of the descendants as the transition to
> agriculture (and THEREFORE the Neolithic Revolution as a whole) does. I

belive

> that from the
> ecological point of view people of Paleolithic and Mesolithic societies

could be

> considered just as other animals - wolves or locust. Domesticated dogs

changed

> here nothing - it was just a kind of symbiosis. Using agriculture changes
> everything
> principally: people create ARTIFICIAL BIOMS - fields and farms+pastures -

and

> control them (at least partly).
> Actually they become gods (for their domestic plants and animals).
> A crazy question: are not we just souls plantations for our gods?
>
> > What's wrong
> > with the origins of civilization as part of the Neolithic Revolution?
> > Civilizations also originated in certain areas such as the Middle East
> > and Southeast Asia. Several posts ago I listed V. Gordon Childe's 10
> > criteria for "state formation" and my 11 criteria. Based on the
> > evidence presented through archaeology, anthropology, history,
> > linguistics, biology, etc. it would appear that BOTH "state formation"
> > and agriculture are components of the Neolithic Revolution. Now both
> > agriculture and state formation were present in the Middle East during
> > the Neolithic but (according to you) state formation wasn't present in
> > South East Asia until the Bronze Age.
>
> Sorry, I can't agree that "state formation" can be taken as a component

of the

> Neolithic Revolution. Look, in the Near/Middle East the very first states
> appeared only in about 5 millenia after the Neolithic Revolution happened
> undoubtelly and completely. 5 millenia - is not too long duration for a
> revolution? Analogous gap is found everywhere in the zones of primary
> agriculture and primary states. Indeed, the large regions were the

Neolithic

> Revolution and the establishment of states took place mostly coincide.

However

> I'd like to draw your attention to the fact that almost everywhere

agriculture

> first appeared in small mountain valleys, but the first states were

placed in

> wide plains of great rivers (at least in the Old World).
>
> Yes, we can say that establishment of states is a result of the Neolithic
> Revolution, but only a remoted result, not a component.
>
> > BTW, do you know of an instance
> > where state formation is present without agriculture?
>
> Not, I don't know, and in "normal" situation this should not be.
>
> However I can imagine that in an extreme situation, in a zone where

agriculture

> is not very productive or even possible (Arctic deserts) + in condition

of

> isolation from post-Neolithic competitors theoretically it could happen.

It does

> not seem me absolutely impossible that if Eskimoes would remain in the

isolation

> some millenia longer they could create a state (a class society) based

not on

> agriculture but on the sea hunting and fishing. But you see this is a

very

> special case. I'm sure this could not happen, say, in Australia before

the

> transition to agriculture.
>
> Alexander
>
>
>
>
>
>
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