From: Adrian
Message: 619
Date: 1999-12-17
> Actually the example from Finnish isn't quite correrct, it is kuningas notcommon
> kuningaz since the "z" doesn't exist in finnish. In the same way a words
> like *druhtinaz ´lord´ is actually ruhtinas in finnish since initial
> consonant-clusters aren't permitted there.
>
> Finnish is an extremely conservative language and has acted as a sort of
> etymological museum of IE (germanic, balto-slavic, indo-iranian) loanwords
> of widely differing ages. As for the existence of actual PIE loanwords in
> Uralic this is a little more uncertain since these might also belong to an
> earlier Indo-Uralic (Nostratic?) stratum.
>
> Tommy Tyrberg
>
>
>
> ----------
> > Från: JoatSimeon@...
> > Till: cybalist@egroups.com
> > Ämne: [cybalist] Re: joatsimeo-Loan Words
> > Datum: den 16 december 1999 04:10
> >
> > >brentlords@... writes:
> >
> > I don't mean to sound impatient, but it would save you and everyone else
> a
> > lot of trouble if you'd simply read a few introductory works on
> historical
> > linguistics before you tried to critique the field. You're in the
> position
> > of someone who has no calculus trying to offer alternatives to General
> > Relativity.
> >
> > You don't have the knowledge-base to _understand_ the theories you're
> > criticizing.
> >
> > >THE SOUNDS ENTER BEFORE THERE IS EVEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THERE TO BE AN
> > EVOLUTION IN THE WRITTEN LANGUAGE.
> >
> > -- this is easy to detect because different languages don't undergo the
> > _same_ sound changes.
> >
> > Eg., Proto-Germanic had a word for "king", roughly *kunningaz; from this
> are
> > derived our "king", "koenig", etc.
> >
> > The same word was borrowed from Proto-Germanic into Finnish, where it
> > survives as... kunningaz. You can also trace a series of very early PIE
> > loans into proto-Finno-Ugrian.
> >
> > >Maybe the relationship being found between the earliest languages does
> have
> > more to do with adjacency and interaction than an expansion of a culture
> and
> > its diversification into subcultures.
> >
> > -- the way languages develop through differentiation of dialects and
> thence
> > into a language-family of related tongues has been historically observed
> > (with Latin ==> Romance, for instance, and Proto-Germanic ==> Germanic
> > languages.)
> >
> > It always happens this way. Language expands territorially, dialects
> diverge
> > because innovations are no longer shared, separate languages emerge.
> >
> > Furthermore, languages don't borrow their basic vocabularies. More than
> half
> > the English vocabulary is loan-words (mostly from the Romance languages)
> but
> > the _basic_ vocabulary, things like kinship terms, body parts, and
>
> > objects, is almost all Germanic in origin... and, in fact, mostly PIE.
> >
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